Gluten-free 'ban' may save £350,000

Oxfordshire’s health authority is set to be the first in the UK to ban gluten-free food from NHS prescriptions to save £350,000 a year.

If it gets given the go-ahead, it will affect thousands of county residents who get food such as breads, pastas, pizza bases and crackers paid for by the NHS.

Children and adults with coeliac disease cannot eat gluten, a product which is found in wheat, barley and rye, and is also often in products such as mayonnaise, soup, and other processed goods.

The only treatment for the disease is a gluten-free diet for life.

There are believed to be more than 6,000 coeliac sufferers in the county and symptoms can range from mild to severe abdominal pain, to osteoporosis, and even bowel cancer.

Last night, the move was condemned by charity Coeliac UK, which said NHS Oxfordshire was the only trust to consider the “draconian” move.

Chief executive Sarah Sleet said: “The primary care trust has said it does not give food on prescription to other groups with food intolerances.

“Coeliac is not a food intolerance, it is an auto-immune disease. It’s very wrong of them.”

NHS Oxfordshire, which decides how health service money is spent locally, said in Oxfordshire it spends £350,000 each year on around 25,000 prescriptions for gluten-free foods for people with coeliac disease.

A spokesman added: “Twenty or thirty years ago, only a small range of gluten-free foods were available and these were relatively expensive.

“To enable people to manage their disease, GPs were able to provide gluten-free foods on prescription.

“However, in recent years, there have been considerable improvements in the types of foods available in shops and supermarkets.

“The NHS does not provide food on prescription for other groups of patients whose diseases are associated with, or affected by, the type of food they eat.

“For these reasons, we are considering whether or not the local NHS should continue to provide NHS prescriptions for gluten-free foods.”

Sarah Sheldon, from Jericho, Oxford, was diagnosed with coeliac disease three years ago.

A unit of gluten free food is classed as the equivalent of either 250g of pasta or 400g of bread.

The mum-of-three, in her 50s, said she is eligible for around 14 units of food on prescription each month.

Mrs Sheldon said: “I am in two minds about this. People who are allergic to dairy do not get food on prescription.

“I do think there’s a case to maybe let people have the staple foods, such as bread.”

A public consultation has opened and will run until February 3.

l The questionnaire can be filled in at http://bit.ly/xUfNWB. Comments can also be emailed to talking.health@oxfordshirepct.nhs.uk or posted to Communications and Engagement, NHS Buckinghamshire & Oxfordshire Cluster, Jubilee House, 5510 John Smith Drive, Oxford Business Park South, Oxford, OX4 2LH COELIAC DISEASE FACTFILE Coeliac disease is caused by a reaction to gluten.

It is a disorder of the small intestine that occurs genetically.

Symptoms may include severe diarrhoea, wind, bloating, constipation, fatigue, stomach cramp and mouth ulcers.

In young children, symptoms can occur after weaning on to cereals containing gluten. They include muscle wasting in arms and legs, bloated tummy, irritability and failure to gain/lose weight.

If you think you have coeliac disease, continue eating gluten and seek advice from your GP.

Comments (123)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

9:42am Wed 18 Jan 12

EMBOX1 says...

"People who are allergic to dairy do not get food on prescription"

You said it! Supermarkets have a good range of food for lactose intolerant and coealics, not to mention many other dietry types (kosher/halal/vegan, I know these aren't medical conditions, but anyway).

I seem to have a problem digesting wheat but I would never dream of asking the NHS to give me food. That's a line I would never cross.
"People who are allergic to dairy do not get food on prescription" You said it! Supermarkets have a good range of food for lactose intolerant and coealics, not to mention many other dietry types (kosher/halal/vegan, I know these aren't medical conditions, but anyway). I seem to have a problem digesting wheat but I would never dream of asking the NHS to give me food. That's a line I would never cross. EMBOX1
  • Score: 0

10:44am Wed 18 Jan 12

Coeliac UK says...

We are very disappointed with the article

One of the key issues missing from the story today is that many local people with coeliac disease in Oxfordshire will be seriously affected by the removal of gluten-free prescriptions.

Unlike simple food intolerances, coeliac disease is an autoimmune condition, with serious and potentially life threatening symptoms if a strict gluten- free diet is not kept to for the rest of your life. While you might assume that the Free From aisles in supermarkets mean that the condition is catered for, it is not. Independent research from King’s College London shows that gluten-free breads and flours can cost four times more than their gluten containing equivalent and they are virtually absent from budget and convenience stores. That means if you are poor, elderly or live in rural areas without access to a car you will find this proposal deeply damaging.

For those who rely on prescriptions to keep to their diet, the only treatment for coeliac disease, they risk suffering from osteoporosis, infertility and small bowel cancer, costing the NHS more than ever.
We are very disappointed with the article One of the key issues missing from the story today is that many local people with coeliac disease in Oxfordshire will be seriously affected by the removal of gluten-free prescriptions. Unlike simple food intolerances, coeliac disease is an autoimmune condition, with serious and potentially life threatening symptoms if a strict gluten- free diet is not kept to for the rest of your life. While you might assume that the Free From aisles in supermarkets mean that the condition is catered for, it is not. Independent research from King’s College London shows that gluten-free breads and flours can cost four times more than their gluten containing equivalent and they are virtually absent from budget and convenience stores. That means if you are poor, elderly or live in rural areas without access to a car you will find this proposal deeply damaging. For those who rely on prescriptions to keep to their diet, the only treatment for coeliac disease, they risk suffering from osteoporosis, infertility and small bowel cancer, costing the NHS more than ever. Coeliac UK
  • Score: 1

12:02pm Wed 18 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

Someone not getting? If you know you need this product, you can buy it...
Someone not getting? If you know you need this product, you can buy it... Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Wed 18 Jan 12

CJB1985 says...

My teenage daughter has coeliac disease and for us, gluten-free prescriptions enable us to treat her condition and make sure she is not at risk of other conditions such as infertility or even cancer. It seems baffling to me that when there is evidence showing that coeliacs need prescriptions to make sure they don’t stray from the diet, that the NHS would remove this service and put people at risk of other illnesses which they would happily pay even greater costs to treat.
My teenage daughter has coeliac disease and for us, gluten-free prescriptions enable us to treat her condition and make sure she is not at risk of other conditions such as infertility or even cancer. It seems baffling to me that when there is evidence showing that coeliacs need prescriptions to make sure they don’t stray from the diet, that the NHS would remove this service and put people at risk of other illnesses which they would happily pay even greater costs to treat. CJB1985
  • Score: 0

12:39pm Wed 18 Jan 12

WitneyGreen says...

Gluten free products are readily available in supermarkets these days. In addition, people who need to eat a gluten free diet can and do use other foodstuffs as 'staples' - the assumption that everyone 'needs' to eat bread and pasta as their staples is outdated when there are so many alternatives available, some of which, particularly pulses, are cheaper, tastier and healthier than bread and pasta anyway. It sounds like most coeliacs need nutritional advice and guidance, and help on how to make interesting, varied and affordable meals, not a regular presciption of boring gluten-free stodge.
Gluten free products are readily available in supermarkets these days. In addition, people who need to eat a gluten free diet can and do use other foodstuffs as 'staples' - the assumption that everyone 'needs' to eat bread and pasta as their staples is outdated when there are so many alternatives available, some of which, particularly pulses, are cheaper, tastier and healthier than bread and pasta anyway. It sounds like most coeliacs need nutritional advice and guidance, and help on how to make interesting, varied and affordable meals, not a regular presciption of boring gluten-free stodge. WitneyGreen
  • Score: -2

12:46pm Wed 18 Jan 12

SwampieUK says...

My wife has coeliac disease and gets limited gluten-free items (bread/flour only now) on prescription. These prescriptions aren't free - she has to pay £7.40 for each item-type just like everyone else does.

Yes, Tesco etc sell gluten-free bread - but at horrendous prices. The loafs are also not terribly nice. Due to gluten-free bread being very crumbly and poor handling by staff, when you actually come to eat the bread, many slices are actually fall apart before you've even got them out the bag.

All gluten-free loaves are actually half a normal 800g loaf size. A 400g gluten-free loaf in Tesco costs between £2.50 and £3, so about £5 to £6 for 800g of bread. A standard (gluten) 800g loaf in Tesco is between 50p (value) and £1.50 for a speciality (granary) bread. This means gluten-free bread in supermarkets is between 4x and 10x normal bread prices (and usually gives fewer 'usable' slices per loaf)

My wife's £7.40 prescription gets her 8x 400g loaves of bread (equivalent to 4 normal 800g loaves of bread) which are meant to last her a month. The bread on prescription is far better than those available in-store, is less crumbly, and tends to be handled better (so fewer slices turn to a pile of crumbs). This works out at around £1 for a 400g loaf (or £2 for equivalent 800g loaf). I feel that is a reasonable price to pay.

Our PCT also restricted the flours that she could get on prescription (if she picks flour one month, she'll get less bread for the month. She only gets 8 items per month, and if she picks flour AND bread, then she pays the prescription free twice (£14.80) as the charge is per item-type). If anyone has actually tried gluten-free baking, you'll know that the flour mix is crucial to getting anything that comes close to 'normal'. My wife tried each of the flours the PCT picked (none had been heard of before), and contacted some of the manufacturers for bread recipes. One of the manufacturers admitted that they'd never been able to make a successful loaf with their flour! So the flour she used to get on prescription, which made bread which was pretty acceptable to her (I find gluten free bread tastes nothing like normal bread!) she can no longer get, so all her recipes she'd been using for years no longer work with the new flours (did I mention that gluten free baking recipes are very specific to the flour being used).

My wife is in her 30's and has had to adjust to the changes our PCT has forced on us. I pity the more vulnerable people who can't just drive to the larger Tesco store (our smaller one doesn't stock them) when the 8 prescribed mini-loaves didn't last more than 2/3 weeks and you've run out, or who don't have the £5-£6 to pay for the 800g equivalent gluten-free loaf. You can't just walk around the corner to the corner shop and pick up a loaf.

Take a look at the staple diet that most people eat (probably bread and pasta features significantly), and then realise how many of those contain wheat, rye, barley or oats (i.e. contain gluten). Other dietary problems aren't too hard to adjust to - but gluten is in lots of foods, some obviously (bread/pastry/pasta/
breakfast cereals), and some less so (ketchup, oven chips, gravy powder, cooking sauces).

People without coeliac disease generally don't understand the extent that it affects so many parts your life. I'm at a loss to explain it all really. Simply having prescription bread and flours can make the problem far more manageable. Remember, the prescriptions are actually paid for! It's not that the bread is given away free.
My wife has coeliac disease and gets limited gluten-free items (bread/flour only now) on prescription. These prescriptions aren't free - she has to pay £7.40 for each item-type just like everyone else does. Yes, Tesco etc sell gluten-free bread - but at horrendous prices. The loafs are also not terribly nice. Due to gluten-free bread being very crumbly and poor handling by staff, when you actually come to eat the bread, many slices are actually fall apart before you've even got them out the bag. All gluten-free loaves are actually half a normal 800g loaf size. A 400g gluten-free loaf in Tesco costs between £2.50 and £3, so about £5 to £6 for 800g of bread. A standard (gluten) 800g loaf in Tesco is between 50p (value) and £1.50 for a speciality (granary) bread. This means gluten-free bread in supermarkets is between 4x and 10x normal bread prices (and usually gives fewer 'usable' slices per loaf) My wife's £7.40 prescription gets her 8x 400g loaves of bread (equivalent to 4 normal 800g loaves of bread) which are meant to last her a month. The bread on prescription is far better than those available in-store, is less crumbly, and tends to be handled better (so fewer slices turn to a pile of crumbs). This works out at around £1 for a 400g loaf (or £2 for equivalent 800g loaf). I feel that is a reasonable price to pay. Our PCT also restricted the flours that she could get on prescription (if she picks flour one month, she'll get less bread for the month. She only gets 8 items per month, and if she picks flour AND bread, then she pays the prescription free twice (£14.80) as the charge is per item-type). If anyone has actually tried gluten-free baking, you'll know that the flour mix is crucial to getting anything that comes close to 'normal'. My wife tried each of the flours the PCT picked (none had been heard of before), and contacted some of the manufacturers for bread recipes. One of the manufacturers admitted that they'd never been able to make a successful loaf with their flour! So the flour she used to get on prescription, which made bread which was pretty acceptable to her (I find gluten free bread tastes nothing like normal bread!) she can no longer get, so all her recipes she'd been using for years no longer work with the new flours (did I mention that gluten free baking recipes are very specific to the flour being used). My wife is in her 30's and has had to adjust to the changes our PCT has forced on us. I pity the more vulnerable people who can't just drive to the larger Tesco store (our smaller one doesn't stock them) when the 8 prescribed mini-loaves didn't last more than 2/3 weeks and you've run out, or who don't have the £5-£6 to pay for the 800g equivalent gluten-free loaf. You can't just walk around the corner to the corner shop and pick up a loaf. Take a look at the staple diet that most people eat (probably bread and pasta features significantly), and then realise how many of those contain wheat, rye, barley or oats (i.e. contain gluten). Other dietary problems aren't too hard to adjust to - but gluten is in lots of foods, some obviously (bread/pastry/pasta/ breakfast cereals), and some less so (ketchup, oven chips, gravy powder, cooking sauces). People without coeliac disease generally don't understand the extent that it affects so many parts your life. I'm at a loss to explain it all really. Simply having prescription bread and flours can make the problem far more manageable. Remember, the prescriptions are actually paid for! It's not that the bread is given away free. SwampieUK
  • Score: 3

12:53pm Wed 18 Jan 12

LadyPenelope says...

My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price!

I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff.

There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.
My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions. LadyPenelope
  • Score: -3

12:57pm Wed 18 Jan 12

SwampieUK says...

WitneyGreen wrote:
Gluten free products are readily available in supermarkets these days. In addition, people who need to eat a gluten free diet can and do use other foodstuffs as 'staples' - the assumption that everyone 'needs' to eat bread and pasta as their staples is outdated when there are so many alternatives available, some of which, particularly pulses, are cheaper, tastier and healthier than bread and pasta anyway. It sounds like most coeliacs need nutritional advice and guidance, and help on how to make interesting, varied and affordable meals, not a regular presciption of boring gluten-free stodge.
So what you're saying is that when someone is diagnosed with coeliac disease (which happens via bowel biopsy, in case people think it's just a 'fad' diet) - they not only have to adapt to gluten-free variants of their normal foods, they should also change the type of food they eat too?

So, rather than taking 2 minutes in the morning to make a sandwich for a packed lunch, they then need to spend 15 minutes cooking (and then also washing up!) a meal with pulses.

Most of the main meals we eat are home prepared and cooked. Many processed foods contain gluten - so it's easier that way. But I wouldn't want to have to start cooking meals which normally were just sandwiches.

And lentils for breakfast with your (gluten free) cereal doesn't sound quite right ;)
[quote][p][bold]WitneyGreen[/bold] wrote: Gluten free products are readily available in supermarkets these days. In addition, people who need to eat a gluten free diet can and do use other foodstuffs as 'staples' - the assumption that everyone 'needs' to eat bread and pasta as their staples is outdated when there are so many alternatives available, some of which, particularly pulses, are cheaper, tastier and healthier than bread and pasta anyway. It sounds like most coeliacs need nutritional advice and guidance, and help on how to make interesting, varied and affordable meals, not a regular presciption of boring gluten-free stodge.[/p][/quote]So what you're saying is that when someone is diagnosed with coeliac disease (which happens via bowel biopsy, in case people think it's just a 'fad' diet) - they not only have to adapt to gluten-free variants of their normal foods, they should also change the type of food they eat too? So, rather than taking 2 minutes in the morning to make a sandwich for a packed lunch, they then need to spend 15 minutes cooking (and then also washing up!) a meal with pulses. Most of the main meals we eat are home prepared and cooked. Many processed foods contain gluten - so it's easier that way. But I wouldn't want to have to start cooking meals which normally were just sandwiches. And lentils for breakfast with your (gluten free) cereal doesn't sound quite right ;) SwampieUK
  • Score: 1

1:13pm Wed 18 Jan 12

SwampieUK says...

LadyPenelope wrote:
My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price!

I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff.

There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.
Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now):

Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive)
Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive)
Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive)
Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive)
Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive)
Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive).

I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive.
[quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.[/p][/quote]Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now): Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive) Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive) Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive) Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive) Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive) Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive). I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive. SwampieUK
  • Score: 0

1:24pm Wed 18 Jan 12

SwampieUK says...

LadyPenelope wrote:
My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price!

I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff.

There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.
Sorry about a 2nd reply - but people with coeliac disease do NOT get free prescriptions. They have to pay £7.40 per item-type, just like everyone else.

So, a prescription for 8x loaves of bread = £7.40.

A prescription for 6x loaves of bread and 2x packs of flour = £14.80.

The NHS does a pre-payment scheme where for £104 a year, paid up-front, you don't have to pay for prescriptions. This works out at about 15 prescription charges per year before breaking even. This is available for EVERYONE.
[quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.[/p][/quote]Sorry about a 2nd reply - but people with coeliac disease do NOT get free prescriptions. They have to pay £7.40 per item-type, just like everyone else. So, a prescription for 8x loaves of bread = £7.40. A prescription for 6x loaves of bread and 2x packs of flour = £14.80. The NHS does a pre-payment scheme where for £104 a year, paid up-front, you don't have to pay for prescriptions. This works out at about 15 prescription charges per year before breaking even. This is available for EVERYONE. SwampieUK
  • Score: 0

1:57pm Wed 18 Jan 12

rosie-a says...

NHS Oxfordshire are utterly naive to even consider these changes, it shows their unconsidered approach to gluten-free food and what it means to those that have Coeliac disease. Gluten-free food availability across Oxfordshire is relatively poor, with haphazard availability (if I want to make gluten free nachos, I travel to Henley for the tortilla chips or if I'd like a loaf of Genius Seeded White bread, it's off to Abingdon... if the items are in stock) and removing the prescription will only exacerbate the issue and costs further.
NHS Oxfordshire are utterly naive to even consider these changes, it shows their unconsidered approach to gluten-free food and what it means to those that have Coeliac disease. Gluten-free food availability across Oxfordshire is relatively poor, with haphazard availability (if I want to make gluten free nachos, I travel to Henley for the tortilla chips or if I'd like a loaf of Genius Seeded White bread, it's off to Abingdon... if the items are in stock) and removing the prescription will only exacerbate the issue and costs further. rosie-a
  • Score: 0

2:15pm Wed 18 Jan 12

Charlotte Oxford says...

This current move is the equivalent to cutting prescriptions of statins to patients on the basis they can be 'bought at the chemist'.
The whole point, as Coeliac UK says, is that Coeliac Disease is NOT like IBS or wheat/dairy intolerance - these are a functional bowel disorders ie they cause symptoms but not disease - but a serious, lifelong autoimmune disease similar to Type 1 Diabetes or Rheumatoid Arthritis. The main difference is that it is the ONLY autoimmune disease for which the cause and “cure” have been found - total avoidance of all traces of gluten found in all UK staple foods (wheat, barley, rye, most oats) - for life. It is the ONLY disease treated exclusively by diet and it is also the ONLY treatment: diagnosed, well-managed coeliacs get no expensive drugs, no vaccines, no surgery, no complex procedures, NHS or otherwise.
And coeliacs do not get ‘FREE’ prescription food, unless entitled as children/ OAPs etc. They pay for each time or buy an annual Prescriptions Prepayment for £104. In fact many coeliacs, like my adult son, don’t ‘bother’ with prescriptions…and then don’t stick to the diet.
Since 2004 Oxfordshire has reduced its prescriptions to provide gluten free food staples only (bread, flour, crackers, pasta) to coeliacs clinically diagnosed by biopsy. The reason the NHS prescribes some foods is to try to ensure patients stick to their clinical treatment: many coeliacs ‘cheat’ because they do not get gut symptoms – and non diet-compliant patients end up costing the NHS more because they get complications like osteoporosis, thyroid disease and lymphoma.
EVERY coeliac has to pay MUCH MORE for food FOR LIFE. Even with the prescriptions the diet is not only difficult but expensive - everyday. Every item of gluten-free food (cereals, ready meals, even ketchup and soya sauce) at home and away costs more because wheat is a cheap, staple ingredient, filler and flavourer. Outside the home it means no take-away sandwiches, no pasties, no pasta, and for children it means no school lunches, no cheap treats or outings ever: no Pizzahut or Macdonalds, not even chips from the Chippy are safe.
I also have coeliac disease. My mother was unwell with it (undiagnosed) for 70 years, and my brother died as a child in the 1950s of a rare complication. It is a lifelong disorder that affects every aspect of lifestyle, not a dietary or lifestyle choice. I stick to the diet. It costs me more than £500 a year. I’m lucky. I can afford to buy specialist foods and gluten-free options every week and have purposely reduced my prescribed foods to save the NHS. However the items I do get are NOT in any shop. The gluten-free products in supermarkets are often of lower quality (even bread is much higher in fat) and (unlike regular bread) they do not have to be fortified in any way. As they are often dairy-free they are actually unsuitable for most coeliacs whose diet lacks calcium. And if I did not live near a large supermarket or have a car I could not buy anything.
The figure £350 000 is actually less than £60 pa per Oxfordshire coeliac patient. Recent UK research has confirmed that coeliac patients cost the NHS more in consultations with GPs and hospital procedures etc in the years before diagnosis than after. Ironically CD is the one disease where you get better when you find out you have it - and cost the NHS less! But most people who have CD have not been diagnosed – 50 000 undiagnosed coeliacs in Oxfordshire alone.
The NHS, helped by Coeliac UK, has made huge advances in diagnosing and promoting awareness in GPs of this common but treatable condition in the last 20 years, resulting in full NICE guidelines in 2009. Prescribing a limited amount of BASIC foods as treatment is a vital part of encouraging this trend.
Oxfordshire NHS is planning to set a very dangerous precedent. It used to be ‘first’ for another reason. Oxford doctors have an excellent reputation for leading research into CD and diagnosing patients. However NHS Oxfordshire’s move to abandon all prescription foods will inevitably lead to fewer people seeking diagnosis or being successfully treated for this disease. The risk is that many at risk groups especially low income and Asian families with coeliac children, students or OAPs, just won’t bother with the diet - or getting diagnosed. This will be counter-productive and costly.
This current move is the equivalent to cutting prescriptions of statins to patients on the basis they can be 'bought at the chemist'. The whole point, as Coeliac UK says, is that Coeliac Disease is NOT like IBS or wheat/dairy intolerance - these are a functional bowel disorders ie they cause symptoms but not disease - but a serious, lifelong autoimmune disease similar to Type 1 Diabetes or Rheumatoid Arthritis. The main difference is that it is the ONLY autoimmune disease for which the cause and “cure” have been found - total avoidance of all traces of gluten found in all UK staple foods (wheat, barley, rye, most oats) - for life. It is the ONLY disease treated exclusively by diet and it is also the ONLY treatment: diagnosed, well-managed coeliacs get no expensive drugs, no vaccines, no surgery, no complex procedures, NHS or otherwise. And coeliacs do not get ‘FREE’ prescription food, unless entitled as children/ OAPs etc. They pay for each time or buy an annual Prescriptions Prepayment for £104. In fact many coeliacs, like my adult son, don’t ‘bother’ with prescriptions…and then don’t stick to the diet. Since 2004 Oxfordshire has reduced its prescriptions to provide gluten free food staples only (bread, flour, crackers, pasta) to coeliacs clinically diagnosed by biopsy. The reason the NHS prescribes some foods is to try to ensure patients stick to their clinical treatment: many coeliacs ‘cheat’ because they do not get gut symptoms – and non diet-compliant patients end up costing the NHS more because they get complications like osteoporosis, thyroid disease and lymphoma. EVERY coeliac has to pay MUCH MORE for food FOR LIFE. Even with the prescriptions the diet is not only difficult but expensive - everyday. Every item of gluten-free food (cereals, ready meals, even ketchup and soya sauce) at home and away costs more because wheat is a cheap, staple ingredient, filler and flavourer. Outside the home it means no take-away sandwiches, no pasties, no pasta, and for children it means no school lunches, no cheap treats or outings ever: no Pizzahut or Macdonalds, not even chips from the Chippy are safe. I also have coeliac disease. My mother was unwell with it (undiagnosed) for 70 years, and my brother died as a child in the 1950s of a rare complication. It is a lifelong disorder that affects every aspect of lifestyle, not a dietary or lifestyle choice. I stick to the diet. It costs me more than £500 a year. I’m lucky. I can afford to buy specialist foods and gluten-free options every week and have purposely reduced my prescribed foods to save the NHS. However the items I do get are NOT in any shop. The gluten-free products in supermarkets are often of lower quality (even bread is much higher in fat) and (unlike regular bread) they do not have to be fortified in any way. As they are often dairy-free they are actually unsuitable for most coeliacs whose diet lacks calcium. And if I did not live near a large supermarket or have a car I could not buy anything. The figure £350 000 is actually less than £60 pa per Oxfordshire coeliac patient. Recent UK research has confirmed that coeliac patients cost the NHS more in consultations with GPs and hospital procedures etc in the years before diagnosis than after. Ironically CD is the one disease where you get better when you find out you have it - and cost the NHS less! But most people who have CD have not been diagnosed – 50 000 undiagnosed coeliacs in Oxfordshire alone. The NHS, helped by Coeliac UK, has made huge advances in diagnosing and promoting awareness in GPs of this common but treatable condition in the last 20 years, resulting in full NICE guidelines in 2009. Prescribing a limited amount of BASIC foods as treatment is a vital part of encouraging this trend. Oxfordshire NHS is planning to set a very dangerous precedent. It used to be ‘first’ for another reason. Oxford doctors have an excellent reputation for leading research into CD and diagnosing patients. However NHS Oxfordshire’s move to abandon all prescription foods will inevitably lead to fewer people seeking diagnosis or being successfully treated for this disease. The risk is that many at risk groups especially low income and Asian families with coeliac children, students or OAPs, just won’t bother with the diet - or getting diagnosed. This will be counter-productive and costly. Charlotte Oxford
  • Score: 0

2:26pm Wed 18 Jan 12

eatmygoal says...

How utterly refreshing to read comments on here written by people who *actually* really know what they are talking about, rather than the usual pondlife spouting on about issues they have no knowledge of whatsoever.
How utterly refreshing to read comments on here written by people who *actually* really know what they are talking about, rather than the usual pondlife spouting on about issues they have no knowledge of whatsoever. eatmygoal
  • Score: 0

2:33pm Wed 18 Jan 12

LadyPenelope says...

SwampieUK wrote:
LadyPenelope wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.
Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now): Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive) Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive) Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive) Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive) Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive) Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive). I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive.
That's a fair enough point Swampie; as someone who doesn't really buy any processed foods, then cutting gluten out my diet wouldn't be as difficult as it would for some. A 400g loaf of bread would last me a fortnight, so I have to put it in the freezer!

RE: the flour - you can make really nice egg pasta with gluten free flour rather than bread, so could use the leftovers for lunch instead of sandwiches? Salads? Aren't most breakfast cereals gluten free?

I also recall using the gluten free flour to make a pizza base once when cooking for my coeliac friend!
[quote][p][bold]SwampieUK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.[/p][/quote]Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now): Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive) Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive) Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive) Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive) Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive) Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive). I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive.[/p][/quote]That's a fair enough point Swampie; as someone who doesn't really buy any processed foods, then cutting gluten out my diet wouldn't be as difficult as it would for some. A 400g loaf of bread would last me a fortnight, so I have to put it in the freezer! RE: the flour - you can make really nice egg pasta with gluten free flour rather than bread, so could use the leftovers for lunch instead of sandwiches? Salads? Aren't most breakfast cereals gluten free? I also recall using the gluten free flour to make a pizza base once when cooking for my coeliac friend! LadyPenelope
  • Score: 0

2:47pm Wed 18 Jan 12

SwampieUK says...

LadyPenelope wrote:
SwampieUK wrote:
LadyPenelope wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.
Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now): Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive) Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive) Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive) Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive) Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive) Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive). I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive.
That's a fair enough point Swampie; as someone who doesn't really buy any processed foods, then cutting gluten out my diet wouldn't be as difficult as it would for some. A 400g loaf of bread would last me a fortnight, so I have to put it in the freezer!

RE: the flour - you can make really nice egg pasta with gluten free flour rather than bread, so could use the leftovers for lunch instead of sandwiches? Salads? Aren't most breakfast cereals gluten free?

I also recall using the gluten free flour to make a pizza base once when cooking for my coeliac friend!
With regard to breakfast cereals - most aren't gluten free. Either they contain:

a.) wheat or barley as intended ingredients (so Weetabix, Bran flakes, Cherios, muesli)
b.) Barley Malt Extract (practically all the rest, including corn flakes, rice pops etc)
c.) Oats, which due to normal farming/milling practices, usually cannot be guaranteed to not also contain traces of wheat etc. 'Safe oats' are those which have been farmed, and milled in ways to avoid cross-contamination - but cost £3 for a 450g pack, compared to 75p for 1kg of Tesco Value Oats (or £1.75 for 1kg Quaker Oats).
[quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SwampieUK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.[/p][/quote]Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now): Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive) Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive) Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive) Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive) Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive) Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive). I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive.[/p][/quote]That's a fair enough point Swampie; as someone who doesn't really buy any processed foods, then cutting gluten out my diet wouldn't be as difficult as it would for some. A 400g loaf of bread would last me a fortnight, so I have to put it in the freezer! RE: the flour - you can make really nice egg pasta with gluten free flour rather than bread, so could use the leftovers for lunch instead of sandwiches? Salads? Aren't most breakfast cereals gluten free? I also recall using the gluten free flour to make a pizza base once when cooking for my coeliac friend![/p][/quote]With regard to breakfast cereals - most aren't gluten free. Either they contain: a.) wheat or barley as intended ingredients (so Weetabix, Bran flakes, Cherios, muesli) b.) Barley Malt Extract (practically all the rest, including corn flakes, rice pops etc) c.) Oats, which due to normal farming/milling practices, usually cannot be guaranteed to not also contain traces of wheat etc. 'Safe oats' are those which have been farmed, and milled in ways to avoid cross-contamination - but cost £3 for a 450g pack, compared to 75p for 1kg of Tesco Value Oats (or £1.75 for 1kg Quaker Oats). SwampieUK
  • Score: 0

2:57pm Wed 18 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

┄How utterly refreshing to read
comments on here written by
people who *actually* really know what they are talking about, rather than the usual pondlife spouting on about issues they have no┄

Is that because, the pondlife would be saying; look how much money the NHS, could save... If these people got their own FOOD!!
┄How utterly refreshing to read comments on here written by people who *actually* really know what they are talking about, rather than the usual pondlife spouting on about issues they have no┄ Is that because, the pondlife would be saying; look how much money the NHS, could save... If these people got their own FOOD!! Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

3:14pm Wed 18 Jan 12

John35 says...

Some things stated here including those by Coeliac UK are half-truths. Yes gluten-free breads and flours may cost four times as much if you compare them with value brands, but not every non-coeliac buys value flours. Comparing Dove's Farm with McDougalls might be a more valid comparison in which case gluten-free flour may be only 1.5 times as much.

It is often suggested that coeliacs will cheat if they do not get prescription foods, but I am not sure to how many people this actually applies. Some of us get the most horrendous symptoms on ingesting any gluten, so we aren't motivated to cheat! I would like to see the NHS get some high quality quantitative evidence on this "cheating" before making a decision. Where is the often quoted evidence that suggests coeliacs getting prescription foods are more likely to stick to a gluten-free diet?

For people of limited means - the poor and the elderly, prescription foods might still be a good idea. Therefore, a possible compromise might be to offer such foods to those already getting free prescriptions. However, since we are often told to reduce high GI foods, I don't believe that consuming copious amounts of bread, pasta and flour is a good thing - therefore people receiving such food should be constantly monitored by a dietitian. Fortification is a non-issue these days unless bread and flour is all you eat. There are plenty of other very nutrient dense foods. Fortification was originally intended to help poor victorians who consumed only white bread!
Some things stated here including those by Coeliac UK are half-truths. Yes gluten-free breads and flours may cost four times as much if you compare them with value brands, but not every non-coeliac buys value flours. Comparing Dove's Farm with McDougalls might be a more valid comparison in which case gluten-free flour may be only 1.5 times as much. It is often suggested that coeliacs will cheat if they do not get prescription foods, but I am not sure to how many people this actually applies. Some of us get the most horrendous symptoms on ingesting any gluten, so we aren't motivated to cheat! I would like to see the NHS get some high quality quantitative evidence on this "cheating" before making a decision. Where is the often quoted evidence that suggests coeliacs getting prescription foods are more likely to stick to a gluten-free diet? For people of limited means - the poor and the elderly, prescription foods might still be a good idea. Therefore, a possible compromise might be to offer such foods to those already getting free prescriptions. However, since we are often told to reduce high GI foods, I don't believe that consuming copious amounts of bread, pasta and flour is a good thing - therefore people receiving such food should be constantly monitored by a dietitian. Fortification is a non-issue these days unless bread and flour is all you eat. There are plenty of other very nutrient dense foods. Fortification was originally intended to help poor victorians who consumed only white bread! John35
  • Score: 0

3:21pm Wed 18 Jan 12

EMBOX1 says...

After reading all these posts, I apologies to those who suffer from this awful problem. I wasn't aware it was such a debilitating illness if not managed correctly.

However...

It seems clear that if the so-called "gluten-free" foods in the supermarkets are in fact NOT gluten free, then the supermarkets need to be taken to task. There should also be no reason why the prices are 2 to 7 times more than regular varieties.

Do health-food/whole food shops not have a better range of products, and if so, what is the price difference?
After reading all these posts, I apologies to those who suffer from this awful problem. I wasn't aware it was such a debilitating illness if not managed correctly. However... It seems clear that if the so-called "gluten-free" foods in the supermarkets are in fact NOT gluten free, then the supermarkets need to be taken to task. There should also be no reason why the prices are 2 to 7 times more than regular varieties. Do health-food/whole food shops not have a better range of products, and if so, what is the price difference? EMBOX1
  • Score: 0

3:29pm Wed 18 Jan 12

PSwift says...

I am absolutely disgusted by some of the comments of "Just go and buy from a supermarket".
How are families and OAP's supposed to afford GF foods.
Short term this may save a small amount. But, long term the NHS costs will rocket due to increased cases of Bowel Cancer and the treatment required. Penny wise pound foolish.
I am absolutely disgusted by some of the comments of "Just go and buy from a supermarket". How are families and OAP's supposed to afford GF foods. Short term this may save a small amount. But, long term the NHS costs will rocket due to increased cases of Bowel Cancer and the treatment required. Penny wise pound foolish. PSwift
  • Score: 0

3:37pm Wed 18 Jan 12

SwampieUK says...

John35 wrote:
Some things stated here including those by Coeliac UK are half-truths. Yes gluten-free breads and flours may cost four times as much if you compare them with value brands, but not every non-coeliac buys value flours. Comparing Dove's Farm with McDougalls might be a more valid comparison in which case gluten-free flour may be only 1.5 times as much.

It is often suggested that coeliacs will cheat if they do not get prescription foods, but I am not sure to how many people this actually applies. Some of us get the most horrendous symptoms on ingesting any gluten, so we aren't motivated to cheat! I would like to see the NHS get some high quality quantitative evidence on this "cheating" before making a decision. Where is the often quoted evidence that suggests coeliacs getting prescription foods are more likely to stick to a gluten-free diet?

For people of limited means - the poor and the elderly, prescription foods might still be a good idea. Therefore, a possible compromise might be to offer such foods to those already getting free prescriptions. However, since we are often told to reduce high GI foods, I don't believe that consuming copious amounts of bread, pasta and flour is a good thing - therefore people receiving such food should be constantly monitored by a dietitian. Fortification is a non-issue these days unless bread and flour is all you eat. There are plenty of other very nutrient dense foods. Fortification was originally intended to help poor victorians who consumed only white bread!
The figures I gave for items above were taken from the Tesco Groceries App which gives real-time prices. The Gluten Free items were all Tesco branded Free From items. The prices for other non-gf items were for normal (but not premium) goods, unless otherwise stated.

I suspect that for most people (coeliacs included) buy more bread than flour. So the price differential for bread becomes more important.

Personally, when I do gluten baking, I use Tesco (non-value) flour. I think that's a better comparison, however:

Doves Farm 1kg Gluten Free flour is £1.70 (£1.70/kg)

McDougalls Plain Flour 1.5kg is £1.50 (£1/kg). So GF 1.7x more expensive.

Tesco Plain Flour 1.5kg is 90p (£0.60/kg). So GF is 2.8x more expensive.

Tesco Value Plain Flour 1.5kg is 52p (£0.35/kg). So GF is 4.8x more expensive.
[quote][p][bold]John35[/bold] wrote: Some things stated here including those by Coeliac UK are half-truths. Yes gluten-free breads and flours may cost four times as much if you compare them with value brands, but not every non-coeliac buys value flours. Comparing Dove's Farm with McDougalls might be a more valid comparison in which case gluten-free flour may be only 1.5 times as much. It is often suggested that coeliacs will cheat if they do not get prescription foods, but I am not sure to how many people this actually applies. Some of us get the most horrendous symptoms on ingesting any gluten, so we aren't motivated to cheat! I would like to see the NHS get some high quality quantitative evidence on this "cheating" before making a decision. Where is the often quoted evidence that suggests coeliacs getting prescription foods are more likely to stick to a gluten-free diet? For people of limited means - the poor and the elderly, prescription foods might still be a good idea. Therefore, a possible compromise might be to offer such foods to those already getting free prescriptions. However, since we are often told to reduce high GI foods, I don't believe that consuming copious amounts of bread, pasta and flour is a good thing - therefore people receiving such food should be constantly monitored by a dietitian. Fortification is a non-issue these days unless bread and flour is all you eat. There are plenty of other very nutrient dense foods. Fortification was originally intended to help poor victorians who consumed only white bread![/p][/quote]The figures I gave for items above were taken from the Tesco Groceries App which gives real-time prices. The Gluten Free items were all Tesco branded Free From items. The prices for other non-gf items were for normal (but not premium) goods, unless otherwise stated. I suspect that for most people (coeliacs included) buy more bread than flour. So the price differential for bread becomes more important. Personally, when I do gluten baking, I use Tesco (non-value) flour. I think that's a better comparison, however: Doves Farm 1kg Gluten Free flour is £1.70 (£1.70/kg) McDougalls Plain Flour 1.5kg is £1.50 (£1/kg). So GF 1.7x more expensive. Tesco Plain Flour 1.5kg is 90p (£0.60/kg). So GF is 2.8x more expensive. Tesco Value Plain Flour 1.5kg is 52p (£0.35/kg). So GF is 4.8x more expensive. SwampieUK
  • Score: 0

3:37pm Wed 18 Jan 12

Elderly coeliac says...

I can understand the need for cuts in the cost of the NHS but the PCT is being unreasonable and shortsighted. Coeliac disease can ONLY be treated by diet and the majority of the items available on prescription are of better quality than the gluten-free products offered by supermarkets and are not available for purchase in any way. Of the various gluten-free products that are available for normal purchase, they generally cost three and four times as much as their normal equivalent. If coeliacs are not diagnosed or do not follow a gluten-free diet they will develop other medical conditions, including various cancers, that are much more expensive to treat. This proposed move might save money in the short-term but it will lead to greatly increased costs in the long term.
I can understand the need for cuts in the cost of the NHS but the PCT is being unreasonable and shortsighted. Coeliac disease can ONLY be treated by diet and the majority of the items available on prescription are of better quality than the gluten-free products offered by supermarkets and are not available for purchase in any way. Of the various gluten-free products that are available for normal purchase, they generally cost three and four times as much as their normal equivalent. If coeliacs are not diagnosed or do not follow a gluten-free diet they will develop other medical conditions, including various cancers, that are much more expensive to treat. This proposed move might save money in the short-term but it will lead to greatly increased costs in the long term. Elderly coeliac
  • Score: 0

3:56pm Wed 18 Jan 12

suesmithoon says...

Reading through people’s comments it’s clear that there are strong feelings on both sides of the argument. I don’t have Coeliac disease and I don’t claim to be an expert on ‘medicine’ or’ diet’.

As a taxpayer I interpret from this thread that Oxfordshire’s NHS are trying to:

•Remove a treatment (the sole treatment) from all Oxfordshire residents whether or not there is a risk of harm.

•Ignore the national guidelines that would give fair access to everybody; whatever your postcode.

•Justify their plans by downgrading a diagnosis to ‘intolerance’ (to make it sound like a fad or phase that people go through).

•Lie to us by saying that the availably in shops is equal to pharmacies and that everybody will afford/ bother.

•Make us feel guilty for spending £350’000 without putting this into context . What do taxpayers spend on all prescriptions? On hip fractures? Infertility treatment? Cancer?

•Spend my money on this distasteful process of taking away a treatment from people rather than improving things.

I can only conclude that I must oppose NHS Oxfordshire's plans- otherwise what on earth will they do with my NHS next?
Reading through people’s comments it’s clear that there are strong feelings on both sides of the argument. I don’t have Coeliac disease and I don’t claim to be an expert on ‘medicine’ or’ diet’. As a taxpayer I interpret from this thread that Oxfordshire’s NHS are trying to: •Remove a treatment (the sole treatment) from all Oxfordshire residents whether or not there is a risk of harm. •Ignore the national guidelines that would give fair access to everybody; whatever your postcode. •Justify their plans by downgrading a diagnosis to ‘intolerance’ (to make it sound like a fad or phase that people go through). •Lie to us by saying that the availably in shops is equal to pharmacies and that everybody will afford/ bother. •Make us feel guilty for spending £350’000 without putting this into context . What do taxpayers spend on all prescriptions? On hip fractures? Infertility treatment? Cancer? •Spend my money on this distasteful process of taking away a treatment from people rather than improving things. I can only conclude that I must oppose NHS Oxfordshire's plans- otherwise what on earth will they do with my NHS next? suesmithoon
  • Score: 0

4:16pm Wed 18 Jan 12

John35 says...

Remove a treatment (the sole treatment) from all Oxfordshire residents whether or not there is a risk of harm.

The treatment is a gluten-free diet, not any particular food. We should remember that apart from whole cereal grains (which very few people normally eat) only processed food contains gluten. Nearly all food in its natural state is gluten free so eating natural food is one treatment option.
[quote]Remove a treatment (the sole treatment) from all Oxfordshire residents whether or not there is a risk of harm.[/quote] The treatment is a gluten-free diet, not any particular food. We should remember that apart from whole cereal grains (which very few people normally eat) only processed food contains gluten. Nearly all food in its natural state is gluten free so eating natural food is one treatment option. John35
  • Score: 0

4:22pm Wed 18 Jan 12

Rosieh says...

it seems to me, from reading these replies that most of the people who are fore the ban do not actually realised what coeliac disease really is and the devastating impact it can have on a person who is diagnosed with it. It is a life changing disease. People with coeliac disease do not choose to eat gluten free food - like some people who go on gluten free diets as a lifestyle choice, and would probably give their right arm to be able to have a normal sandwich again. Gluten free food is still not up to the standard of normal gluten containing food and basically coeliacs have to put up with it and get used to eating different food which has a different taste and texture and, as has been mentioned, is very expensive. A coeliac who eats gluten can become very ill instantly, and the long term effects of the disease can be life threatening. People who oppose prescription food for coeliacs really should research the disease and know all the facts before commenting, maybe have a chat with a few coeliacs and see how it has impacted on their lives. Then make your decision.
it seems to me, from reading these replies that most of the people who are fore the ban do not actually realised what coeliac disease really is and the devastating impact it can have on a person who is diagnosed with it. It is a life changing disease. People with coeliac disease do not choose to eat gluten free food - like some people who go on gluten free diets as a lifestyle choice, and would probably give their right arm to be able to have a normal sandwich again. Gluten free food is still not up to the standard of normal gluten containing food and basically coeliacs have to put up with it and get used to eating different food which has a different taste and texture and, as has been mentioned, is very expensive. A coeliac who eats gluten can become very ill instantly, and the long term effects of the disease can be life threatening. People who oppose prescription food for coeliacs really should research the disease and know all the facts before commenting, maybe have a chat with a few coeliacs and see how it has impacted on their lives. Then make your decision. Rosieh
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Wed 18 Jan 12

LadyPenelope says...

So the solution would be to allow coeliacs to purchase gluten free products at a comparable price to non gluten free products?

(so the equivalent for a paid prescription really...)
So the solution would be to allow coeliacs to purchase gluten free products at a comparable price to non gluten free products? (so the equivalent for a paid prescription really...) LadyPenelope
  • Score: 0

4:32pm Wed 18 Jan 12

laura west kong says...

SwampieUK wrote:
WitneyGreen wrote:
Gluten free products are readily available in supermarkets these days. In addition, people who need to eat a gluten free diet can and do use other foodstuffs as 'staples' - the assumption that everyone 'needs' to eat bread and pasta as their staples is outdated when there are so many alternatives available, some of which, particularly pulses, are cheaper, tastier and healthier than bread and pasta anyway. It sounds like most coeliacs need nutritional advice and guidance, and help on how to make interesting, varied and affordable meals, not a regular presciption of boring gluten-free stodge.
So what you're saying is that when someone is diagnosed with coeliac disease (which happens via bowel biopsy, in case people think it's just a 'fad' diet) - they not only have to adapt to gluten-free variants of their normal foods, they should also change the type of food they eat too?

So, rather than taking 2 minutes in the morning to make a sandwich for a packed lunch, they then need to spend 15 minutes cooking (and then also washing up!) a meal with pulses.

Most of the main meals we eat are home prepared and cooked. Many processed foods contain gluten - so it's easier that way. But I wouldn't want to have to start cooking meals which normally were just sandwiches.

And lentils for breakfast with your (gluten free) cereal doesn't sound quite right ;)
That's exactly what I do (California, USA). I can't take 2 minutes in the morning to make a sandwich to bring for lunch because I can't eat not only gluten, but now most grains as well. I have to cook everything from scratch and make sure that I prepare enough food the night before so that I can pack leftovers the next day. I'm not saying this to complain, just stating it as a fact of my life. If I want to stay well, this is what I have to do.
[quote][p][bold]SwampieUK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WitneyGreen[/bold] wrote: Gluten free products are readily available in supermarkets these days. In addition, people who need to eat a gluten free diet can and do use other foodstuffs as 'staples' - the assumption that everyone 'needs' to eat bread and pasta as their staples is outdated when there are so many alternatives available, some of which, particularly pulses, are cheaper, tastier and healthier than bread and pasta anyway. It sounds like most coeliacs need nutritional advice and guidance, and help on how to make interesting, varied and affordable meals, not a regular presciption of boring gluten-free stodge.[/p][/quote]So what you're saying is that when someone is diagnosed with coeliac disease (which happens via bowel biopsy, in case people think it's just a 'fad' diet) - they not only have to adapt to gluten-free variants of their normal foods, they should also change the type of food they eat too? So, rather than taking 2 minutes in the morning to make a sandwich for a packed lunch, they then need to spend 15 minutes cooking (and then also washing up!) a meal with pulses. Most of the main meals we eat are home prepared and cooked. Many processed foods contain gluten - so it's easier that way. But I wouldn't want to have to start cooking meals which normally were just sandwiches. And lentils for breakfast with your (gluten free) cereal doesn't sound quite right ;)[/p][/quote]That's exactly what I do (California, USA). I can't take 2 minutes in the morning to make a sandwich to bring for lunch because I can't eat not only gluten, but now most grains as well. I have to cook everything from scratch and make sure that I prepare enough food the night before so that I can pack leftovers the next day. I'm not saying this to complain, just stating it as a fact of my life. If I want to stay well, this is what I have to do. laura west kong
  • Score: 0

4:48pm Wed 18 Jan 12

SwampieUK says...

John35 wrote:
Remove a treatment (the sole treatment) from all Oxfordshire residents whether or not there is a risk of harm.

The treatment is a gluten-free diet, not any particular food. We should remember that apart from whole cereal grains (which very few people normally eat) only processed food contains gluten. Nearly all food in its natural state is gluten free so eating natural food is one treatment option.
The problem is not so much the processed food aspect - but the staple food aspect - particularly bread.

Coeliacs aren't asking for their entire diet to be provided, as it's not too difficult to cook gluten free food from normal ingredients. But bread? Most people don't bake their own bread - and from experience, it's far from easy. In our case, since early 2011 when our PCT dropped the particular flour my wife used, we've been unable to find a flour which works as well. We've had plenty of solid bricks of baked dough though.

Most people see bread as being a core part of their diet. Often including toast for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch, and a cooked meal in the evening.

A gluten free 400g loaf can be only 10-12 small slices. It's easy to have 2 slices for breakfast, and 4 for lunch (for normal sized loaves, this would equate to more like 1 to 1.5 slices of normal bread for breakfast, and 2-3 slices for lunch - hardly excessive). Therefore this loaf would last maybe 2 days, which would mean around possibly 15 loaves a month. If it lasted 3 days, that would be 10 loaves a month.

At Tesco prices (£2 a loaf), this would equate to £20 to £30 a month on GF bread, or £240 to £360 a year.

The rest of our family (3 people) gets through 4 loaves a week, at £1.20 a loaf for a good granary loaf, or £250 a year. Buying my wife's bread from Tesco would cost the same as we feed 3 people with bread. That indicates the difference.

As it stands we pay £104 a year to the NHS for 8 loaves a month on prescription. We probably supplement this with another (pretty horrible) 4 loaves a month when these run out. Total cost to us is around £200. Before our PCT changed their rules, all the bread was on prescription - so our GF bread costs have doubled from £104 to £200 a year.
[quote][p][bold]John35[/bold] wrote: [quote]Remove a treatment (the sole treatment) from all Oxfordshire residents whether or not there is a risk of harm.[/quote] The treatment is a gluten-free diet, not any particular food. We should remember that apart from whole cereal grains (which very few people normally eat) only processed food contains gluten. Nearly all food in its natural state is gluten free so eating natural food is one treatment option.[/p][/quote]The problem is not so much the processed food aspect - but the staple food aspect - particularly bread. Coeliacs aren't asking for their entire diet to be provided, as it's not too difficult to cook gluten free food from normal ingredients. But bread? Most people don't bake their own bread - and from experience, it's far from easy. In our case, since early 2011 when our PCT dropped the particular flour my wife used, we've been unable to find a flour which works as well. We've had plenty of solid bricks of baked dough though. Most people see bread as being a core part of their diet. Often including toast for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch, and a cooked meal in the evening. A gluten free 400g loaf can be only 10-12 small slices. It's easy to have 2 slices for breakfast, and 4 for lunch (for normal sized loaves, this would equate to more like 1 to 1.5 slices of normal bread for breakfast, and 2-3 slices for lunch - hardly excessive). Therefore this loaf would last maybe 2 days, which would mean around possibly 15 loaves a month. If it lasted 3 days, that would be 10 loaves a month. At Tesco prices (£2 a loaf), this would equate to £20 to £30 a month on GF bread, or £240 to £360 a year. The rest of our family (3 people) gets through 4 loaves a week, at £1.20 a loaf for a good granary loaf, or £250 a year. Buying my wife's bread from Tesco would cost the same as we feed 3 people with bread. That indicates the difference. As it stands we pay £104 a year to the NHS for 8 loaves a month on prescription. We probably supplement this with another (pretty horrible) 4 loaves a month when these run out. Total cost to us is around £200. Before our PCT changed their rules, all the bread was on prescription - so our GF bread costs have doubled from £104 to £200 a year. SwampieUK
  • Score: 0

6:00pm Wed 18 Jan 12

coe114c says...

This discussion is going to carry on going round and round in circles. The NHS should be educating people about proper nutrition. It is easy to eat gluten free without processed foods and I very rarely get stuff on prescription or buy 'free from' foods in supermarkets. Without a shift in our culture though people are still going to hanker after their white bread, ready made cakes and biscuits, pies etc.
This discussion is going to carry on going round and round in circles. The NHS should be educating people about proper nutrition. It is easy to eat gluten free without processed foods and I very rarely get stuff on prescription or buy 'free from' foods in supermarkets. Without a shift in our culture though people are still going to hanker after their white bread, ready made cakes and biscuits, pies etc. coe114c
  • Score: 0

6:31pm Wed 18 Jan 12

sillyyak says...

I am a coeliac and I do not get food on prescription as I do not approve of it. There has been a lot on the internet about how the NHS is charged over £6.50 for 500g of gluten free flour (plus delivery) When this same product is available to coeliac in the EU for 2.3 Euro's (just under £2.00) So it's about time it was stopped and as a coeliac I support this stand as there would be the opportunity for even more gluten free foods in the shops, leaving the NHS to spend it's valuable resources on treating the sick, so I see this as in everyone's best interest. As more and more coeliac are diagnosed this cost to the NHS is going to rocket just as the NHS's budget is being squeezed, which's is not in anyone's best interests. So bring it on, that's what I say and as a diagnosed UK coeliac.
I am a coeliac and I do not get food on prescription as I do not approve of it. There has been a lot on the internet about how the NHS is charged over £6.50 for 500g of gluten free flour (plus delivery) When this same product is available to coeliac in the EU for 2.3 Euro's (just under £2.00) So it's about time it was stopped and as a coeliac I support this stand as there would be the opportunity for even more gluten free foods in the shops, leaving the NHS to spend it's valuable resources on treating the sick, so I see this as in everyone's best interest. As more and more coeliac are diagnosed this cost to the NHS is going to rocket just as the NHS's budget is being squeezed, which's is not in anyone's best interests. So bring it on, that's what I say and as a diagnosed UK coeliac. sillyyak
  • Score: 0

6:32pm Wed 18 Jan 12

sillyyak says...

I am a coeliac and I do not get food on prescription as I do not approve of it. There has been a lot on the internet about how the NHS is charged over £6.50 for 500g of gluten free flour (plus delivery) When this same product is available to coeliac in the EU for 2.3 Euro's (just under £2.00) So it's about time it was stopped and as a coeliac I support this stand as there would be the opportunity for even more gluten free foods in the shops, leaving the NHS to spend it's valuable resources on treating the sick, so I see this as in everyone's best interest. As more and more coeliac are diagnosed this cost to the NHS is going to rocket just as the NHS's budget is being squeezed, which's is not in anyone's best interests. So bring it on, that's what I say and as a diagnosed UK coeliac.
I am a coeliac and I do not get food on prescription as I do not approve of it. There has been a lot on the internet about how the NHS is charged over £6.50 for 500g of gluten free flour (plus delivery) When this same product is available to coeliac in the EU for 2.3 Euro's (just under £2.00) So it's about time it was stopped and as a coeliac I support this stand as there would be the opportunity for even more gluten free foods in the shops, leaving the NHS to spend it's valuable resources on treating the sick, so I see this as in everyone's best interest. As more and more coeliac are diagnosed this cost to the NHS is going to rocket just as the NHS's budget is being squeezed, which's is not in anyone's best interests. So bring it on, that's what I say and as a diagnosed UK coeliac. sillyyak
  • Score: 0

6:39pm Wed 18 Jan 12

jenijo says...

I have Coeliac disease and I am delighted that more and more shops choose to have a range of " free from" items on their shelves but I would like to point out that just because it's in a free from section it doesn't mean it's gluten free it may be free of any of the many other allergens.
Also many of the items are not staples, there are plenty of cakes and biscuits but quite often there are very few bread options.
Quite often the shops do sell out so there is actually none of the bread available.
being able to BUY it through the prescription means it is available.
I have Coeliac disease and I am delighted that more and more shops choose to have a range of " free from" items on their shelves but I would like to point out that just because it's in a free from section it doesn't mean it's gluten free it may be free of any of the many other allergens. Also many of the items are not staples, there are plenty of cakes and biscuits but quite often there are very few bread options. Quite often the shops do sell out so there is actually none of the bread available. being able to BUY it through the prescription means it is available. jenijo
  • Score: 0

7:07pm Wed 18 Jan 12

sam2973 says...

My 10 year old daughter has coeliac desease and has to have a gluten-free diet. This is not easy to follow, even the simple thing like a milkshake can contain gluten. The next time you go shopping just take a moment to look at the ingredients list and im sure you will be surprised to see just what the simple things contain. Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!!
My 10 year old daughter has coeliac desease and has to have a gluten-free diet. This is not easy to follow, even the simple thing like a milkshake can contain gluten. The next time you go shopping just take a moment to look at the ingredients list and im sure you will be surprised to see just what the simple things contain. Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!! sam2973
  • Score: 0

7:08pm Wed 18 Jan 12

sam2973 says...

My 10 year old daughter has coeliac desease and has to have a gluten-free diet. This is not easy to follow, even the simple thing like a milkshake can contain gluten. The next time you go shopping just take a moment to look at the ingredients list and im sure you will be surprised to see just what the simple things contain. Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!!
My 10 year old daughter has coeliac desease and has to have a gluten-free diet. This is not easy to follow, even the simple thing like a milkshake can contain gluten. The next time you go shopping just take a moment to look at the ingredients list and im sure you will be surprised to see just what the simple things contain. Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!! sam2973
  • Score: 0

8:01pm Wed 18 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

┄Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!┄

I'm not finding it cost more, so the NHS should pay, much of an argument...

Watch someone going through heroin withdrawal, and you might have some idea
┄Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!┄ I'm not finding it cost more, so the NHS should pay, much of an argument... Watch someone going through heroin withdrawal, and you might have some idea Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

8:45pm Wed 18 Jan 12

TempestJT says...

My son, age 5, has been diagnosed with coeliacs since he was 2. We no longer use prescriptions for food as I believe it is a waste of NHS resource. I'm a single parent and not rich by any means but careful planning can help the budget. I find the foods available on prescription not the best tasting or quality and many supermarket brands are nicer (I've tried them all as I won't feed my son something sub-standard) in fact Tesco own brand fresh bread is by far the nicest! Why do you need so much pasta or cake or bread in your diet? Rice and potato are great GF foods. Rice cakes can be used instead of bread, homemade burgers rather than shop bought. Bake cakes and biscuits. GF living is easy and healthy. You just need to open your mind and start researching properly.

I do feel families on low incomes should probably receive some help, however I don't feel the NHS should subsidise everyone. That money can be far better spent on things like nurses, medicine, equipment, essential maintenance on medical equipment.

My job ironically involves saving the NHS money on maintenance of its equipment and its something I'm passionate about. We all need to help where we can as we ALL take the NHS for granted.

Oh and if you feel you will lose the essentials you are used to, you can order all the brands you get on prescription online. Info will be in your Coeliac UK food directory.
My son, age 5, has been diagnosed with coeliacs since he was 2. We no longer use prescriptions for food as I believe it is a waste of NHS resource. I'm a single parent and not rich by any means but careful planning can help the budget. I find the foods available on prescription not the best tasting or quality and many supermarket brands are nicer (I've tried them all as I won't feed my son something sub-standard) in fact Tesco own brand fresh bread is by far the nicest! Why do you need so much pasta or cake or bread in your diet? Rice and potato are great GF foods. Rice cakes can be used instead of bread, homemade burgers rather than shop bought. Bake cakes and biscuits. GF living is easy and healthy. You just need to open your mind and start researching properly. I do feel families on low incomes should probably receive some help, however I don't feel the NHS should subsidise everyone. That money can be far better spent on things like nurses, medicine, equipment, essential maintenance on medical equipment. My job ironically involves saving the NHS money on maintenance of its equipment and its something I'm passionate about. We all need to help where we can as we ALL take the NHS for granted. Oh and if you feel you will lose the essentials you are used to, you can order all the brands you get on prescription online. Info will be in your Coeliac UK food directory. TempestJT
  • Score: 0

9:18pm Wed 18 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

Well said TempestJT, if everybody switched to your way of thinking, the range of available GF products would increase...
Well said TempestJT, if everybody switched to your way of thinking, the range of available GF products would increase... Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

9:21pm Wed 18 Jan 12

TempestJT says...

Further to my last comment, has anyone who suffers ever thought it may be better to campaign to have prices of GF foods reduced?

This would be the best solution all round
Further to my last comment, has anyone who suffers ever thought it may be better to campaign to have prices of GF foods reduced? This would be the best solution all round TempestJT
  • Score: 0

9:37pm Wed 18 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

The 'ban' moves more money to the high street producers, instead of NHS contracts, so you should a reduction in price as the competition increases
The 'ban' moves more money to the high street producers, instead of NHS contracts, so you should a reduction in price as the competition increases Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

11:53am Thu 19 Jan 12

Choosparp says...

LadyPenelope wrote:
SwampieUK wrote:
LadyPenelope wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.
Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now): Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive) Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive) Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive) Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive) Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive) Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive). I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive.
That's a fair enough point Swampie; as someone who doesn't really buy any processed foods, then cutting gluten out my diet wouldn't be as difficult as it would for some. A 400g loaf of bread would last me a fortnight, so I have to put it in the freezer!

RE: the flour - you can make really nice egg pasta with gluten free flour rather than bread, so could use the leftovers for lunch instead of sandwiches? Salads? Aren't most breakfast cereals gluten free?

I also recall using the gluten free flour to make a pizza base once when cooking for my coeliac friend!
Making egg pasta is a great option for the occasional dinner where you have to entertain a Coeliac friend. Now think about daily life for a young family with working parents. I cook from scratch most evenings but I certainly don't have time to make fresh pasta when I get in from work, and a packet of gluten-free spaghetti in my local supermarket is £2.09 compared to 76p for the supermarket's own brand of wheat pasta.
And while I'm happy to eat a salad any time try convincing my 5 year old son to have salad or a tub of lentils for his school lunch every day when everyone else has sandwiches (school dinners are impossible for a Coeliac). Breakfast from the supermarket is limited to a handful of corn or rice-based cereals with little nutritional value, so a decent fibre-enriched bread for toast is hardly "resorting to convenience food" as some seem to be suggesting, and it's expensive and often hard to find as many have already pointed out.
Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.
[quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SwampieUK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.[/p][/quote]Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now): Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive) Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive) Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive) Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive) Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive) Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive). I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive.[/p][/quote]That's a fair enough point Swampie; as someone who doesn't really buy any processed foods, then cutting gluten out my diet wouldn't be as difficult as it would for some. A 400g loaf of bread would last me a fortnight, so I have to put it in the freezer! RE: the flour - you can make really nice egg pasta with gluten free flour rather than bread, so could use the leftovers for lunch instead of sandwiches? Salads? Aren't most breakfast cereals gluten free? I also recall using the gluten free flour to make a pizza base once when cooking for my coeliac friend![/p][/quote]Making egg pasta is a great option for the occasional dinner where you have to entertain a Coeliac friend. Now think about daily life for a young family with working parents. I cook from scratch most evenings but I certainly don't have time to make fresh pasta when I get in from work, and a packet of gluten-free spaghetti in my local supermarket is £2.09 compared to 76p for the supermarket's own brand of wheat pasta. And while I'm happy to eat a salad any time try convincing my 5 year old son to have salad or a tub of lentils for his school lunch every day when everyone else has sandwiches (school dinners are impossible for a Coeliac). Breakfast from the supermarket is limited to a handful of corn or rice-based cereals with little nutritional value, so a decent fibre-enriched bread for toast is hardly "resorting to convenience food" as some seem to be suggesting, and it's expensive and often hard to find as many have already pointed out. Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury. Choosparp
  • Score: 0

12:09pm Thu 19 Jan 12

TempestJT says...

Choosparp wrote:
LadyPenelope wrote:
SwampieUK wrote:
LadyPenelope wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.
Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now): Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive) Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive) Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive) Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive) Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive) Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive). I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive.
That's a fair enough point Swampie; as someone who doesn't really buy any processed foods, then cutting gluten out my diet wouldn't be as difficult as it would for some. A 400g loaf of bread would last me a fortnight, so I have to put it in the freezer!

RE: the flour - you can make really nice egg pasta with gluten free flour rather than bread, so could use the leftovers for lunch instead of sandwiches? Salads? Aren't most breakfast cereals gluten free?

I also recall using the gluten free flour to make a pizza base once when cooking for my coeliac friend!
Making egg pasta is a great option for the occasional dinner where you have to entertain a Coeliac friend. Now think about daily life for a young family with working parents. I cook from scratch most evenings but I certainly don't have time to make fresh pasta when I get in from work, and a packet of gluten-free spaghetti in my local supermarket is £2.09 compared to 76p for the supermarket's own brand of wheat pasta.
And while I'm happy to eat a salad any time try convincing my 5 year old son to have salad or a tub of lentils for his school lunch every day when everyone else has sandwiches (school dinners are impossible for a Coeliac). Breakfast from the supermarket is limited to a handful of corn or rice-based cereals with little nutritional value, so a decent fibre-enriched bread for toast is hardly "resorting to convenience food" as some seem to be suggesting, and it's expensive and often hard to find as many have already pointed out.
Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.
Why is pasta so essential? My son is 5 and has coeliacs. He has a full and varied lunch box everyday (not always sandwiches) and a cooked dinner every night. He also rarely has cereal for breakfast. I'm a single parent and work full time but it's not an issue for us.

If you research this, there are so many foods that are naturally GF that are simple to make. We never use prescriptions and I can do a weekly food shop for 3 for £50, including GF food!
[quote][p][bold]Choosparp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SwampieUK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: My local shop stocks the basic gluten free products, as do most others nowadays. They are certainly NOT 4x the price! I know someone with Coeliacs disease, and she just cooks using ingredients she CAN eat, and doesn't bother with prescription gluten free stuff. There's SO much more gluten free choice available nowadays, so no need to have free prescriptions.[/p][/quote]Few examples which come to mind (taken from our local Tesco via online groceries app right now): Crumpets - 4 for £2. Normal Tesco ones are 8 for 55p (7p each, so 7x more expensive) Rolls - 4 for £2.20. Normal 6 for 67p (11p each, so 5x more expensive) Naan bread (single) - £2. Normal 55p for 2 (28p each, so 7x more expensive) Victoria sponge (small) - £3.50. Normal £1.70 (so 2x more expensive) Baguette (2, small) - £3. Normal 59p for 2. (30p each, so 5x more expensive) Bagels (2) - £2. Normal £1.25 for 5 (25p each, so 4x more expensive). I compared items from their FreeFrom range against Tesco own-brand (or 'value' brands). Branded items, or 'Finest' would be even more expensive.[/p][/quote]That's a fair enough point Swampie; as someone who doesn't really buy any processed foods, then cutting gluten out my diet wouldn't be as difficult as it would for some. A 400g loaf of bread would last me a fortnight, so I have to put it in the freezer! RE: the flour - you can make really nice egg pasta with gluten free flour rather than bread, so could use the leftovers for lunch instead of sandwiches? Salads? Aren't most breakfast cereals gluten free? I also recall using the gluten free flour to make a pizza base once when cooking for my coeliac friend![/p][/quote]Making egg pasta is a great option for the occasional dinner where you have to entertain a Coeliac friend. Now think about daily life for a young family with working parents. I cook from scratch most evenings but I certainly don't have time to make fresh pasta when I get in from work, and a packet of gluten-free spaghetti in my local supermarket is £2.09 compared to 76p for the supermarket's own brand of wheat pasta. And while I'm happy to eat a salad any time try convincing my 5 year old son to have salad or a tub of lentils for his school lunch every day when everyone else has sandwiches (school dinners are impossible for a Coeliac). Breakfast from the supermarket is limited to a handful of corn or rice-based cereals with little nutritional value, so a decent fibre-enriched bread for toast is hardly "resorting to convenience food" as some seem to be suggesting, and it's expensive and often hard to find as many have already pointed out. Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.[/p][/quote]Why is pasta so essential? My son is 5 and has coeliacs. He has a full and varied lunch box everyday (not always sandwiches) and a cooked dinner every night. He also rarely has cereal for breakfast. I'm a single parent and work full time but it's not an issue for us. If you research this, there are so many foods that are naturally GF that are simple to make. We never use prescriptions and I can do a weekly food shop for 3 for £50, including GF food! TempestJT
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Thu 19 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

---Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.---

Yep, NHS "buy my food for me", it cost less and is less effort if you do...

Do you think conning people with the "I have to plan my diet" argument?
---Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.--- Yep, NHS "buy my food for me", it cost less and is less effort if you do... Do you think conning people with the "I have to plan my diet" argument? Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

12:30pm Thu 19 Jan 12

TempestJT says...

coe114c wrote:
This discussion is going to carry on going round and round in circles. The NHS should be educating people about proper nutrition. It is easy to eat gluten free without processed foods and I very rarely get stuff on prescription or buy 'free from' foods in supermarkets. Without a shift in our culture though people are still going to hanker after their white bread, ready made cakes and biscuits, pies etc.
I concur.
[quote][p][bold]coe114c[/bold] wrote: This discussion is going to carry on going round and round in circles. The NHS should be educating people about proper nutrition. It is easy to eat gluten free without processed foods and I very rarely get stuff on prescription or buy 'free from' foods in supermarkets. Without a shift in our culture though people are still going to hanker after their white bread, ready made cakes and biscuits, pies etc.[/p][/quote]I concur. TempestJT
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Thu 19 Jan 12

eatmygoal says...

Darkforbid wrote:
---Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.---

Yep, NHS "buy my food for me", it cost less and is less effort if you do...

Do you think conning people with the "I have to plan my diet" argument?
May I ask Darkforbid, do you receive any state benefits?
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: ---Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.--- Yep, NHS "buy my food for me", it cost less and is less effort if you do... Do you think conning people with the "I have to plan my diet" argument?[/p][/quote]May I ask Darkforbid, do you receive any state benefits? eatmygoal
  • Score: 0

1:51pm Thu 19 Jan 12

John35 says...

Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.

I am a coeliac and I do not agree with this at all. I think you are wedded to convenience. There is absolutely no NEED to eat pasta or bread ever: there are so many other things you can eat. I think as a society we should get away from the idea that cereal based products are a necessity. We call them 'staples' and the somehow makes them sound essential, but clearly anyone can live without them. It is a little less convenient, but not much more difficult or time consuming at all.
[quote]Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.[/quote] I am a coeliac and I do not agree with this at all. I think you are wedded to convenience. There is absolutely no NEED to eat pasta or bread ever: there are so many other things you can eat. I think as a society we should get away from the idea that cereal based products are a necessity. We call them 'staples' and the somehow makes them sound essential, but clearly anyone can live without them. It is a little less convenient, but not much more difficult or time consuming at all. John35
  • Score: 0

2:28pm Thu 19 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

┄May I ask Darkforbid, do you
receive any state benefits?┄

Yep JSA, not that I like being on benefits... Most of the time I just make money on the streets, but being zero-benefits crosses you off some lists I need to be on like housing...
┄May I ask Darkforbid, do you receive any state benefits?┄ Yep JSA, not that I like being on benefits... Most of the time I just make money on the streets, but being zero-benefits crosses you off some lists I need to be on like housing... Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

2:51pm Thu 19 Jan 12

LadyPenelope says...

Ultimately, there are SO many foods that a coeliac CAN eat, so why not focus on these? Why do you HAVE to eat bread or pasta etc...?

Choospath - I have a young family and work, and cook from scratch every night too, and fresh pasta takes about 10 mins to make and 3 mins to cook - hardly much effort.

You can also make giant ravioli for school lunches, and get them to pick their own fillings.
Ultimately, there are SO many foods that a coeliac CAN eat, so why not focus on these? Why do you HAVE to eat bread or pasta etc...? Choospath - I have a young family and work, and cook from scratch every night too, and fresh pasta takes about 10 mins to make and 3 mins to cook - hardly much effort. You can also make giant ravioli for school lunches, and get them to pick their own fillings. LadyPenelope
  • Score: 0

3:10pm Thu 19 Jan 12

no2cuts says...

John35 wrote:
Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.
I am a coeliac and I do not agree with this at all. I think you are wedded to convenience. There is absolutely no NEED to eat pasta or bread ever: there are so many other things you can eat. I think as a society we should get away from the idea that cereal based products are a necessity. We call them 'staples' and the somehow makes them sound essential, but clearly anyone can live without them. It is a little less convenient, but not much more difficult or time consuming at all.
Are people wedded to convenience? Are the prescriptions for gluten-free food totally convenient? Or do they involve appointments with a Dietitian to discuss options then appointments with doctors to get a prescription, then regular trips to pharmacies to collect and pay. I don’t mean to complain, just put things into context from the perspective of a 25 yr old.
The suggestions around cooking completely from scratch are great if they work for you. But please don’t assume that access to an uncontaminated cooking facility exists, it certainly doesn’t in my student accommodation ;)

It might be a little unrealistic to expect the UK population to give up cereals as the staple way of getting carbohydrate (so John35 might need to just accept that this is the case). I think that children with coeliac disease have the right to a sandwich made from gluten free bread. Sure if they have a brilliant mum who will prepare rice cracker sandwiches then this is one option but this isn't always applicable and isn’t school/ teenage life hard enough without making yourself ‘different’?

I think that this proposal by the NHS in Oxfordshire is wrong. The fact that there are such apposing responses suggests to me that the prescriptions should remain available so medical people can decide when they are required on a case-by-case basis.

From my experience, the supply chain is long and maybe there is some opportunity to make efficiency savings here?
[quote][p][bold]John35[/bold] wrote: [quote]Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.[/quote] I am a coeliac and I do not agree with this at all. I think you are wedded to convenience. There is absolutely no NEED to eat pasta or bread ever: there are so many other things you can eat. I think as a society we should get away from the idea that cereal based products are a necessity. We call them 'staples' and the somehow makes them sound essential, but clearly anyone can live without them. It is a little less convenient, but not much more difficult or time consuming at all.[/p][/quote]Are people wedded to convenience? Are the prescriptions for gluten-free food totally convenient? Or do they involve appointments with a Dietitian to discuss options then appointments with doctors to get a prescription, then regular trips to pharmacies to collect and pay. I don’t mean to complain, just put things into context from the perspective of a 25 yr old. The suggestions around cooking completely from scratch are great if they work for you. But please don’t assume that access to an uncontaminated cooking facility exists, it certainly doesn’t in my student accommodation ;) It might be a little unrealistic to expect the UK population to give up cereals as the staple way of getting carbohydrate (so John35 might need to just accept that this is the case). I think that children with coeliac disease have the right to a sandwich made from gluten free bread. Sure if they have a brilliant mum who will prepare rice cracker sandwiches then this is one option but this isn't always applicable and isn’t school/ teenage life hard enough without making yourself ‘different’? I think that this proposal by the NHS in Oxfordshire is wrong. The fact that there are such apposing responses suggests to me that the prescriptions should remain available so medical people can decide when they are required on a case-by-case basis. From my experience, the supply chain is long and maybe there is some opportunity to make efficiency savings here? no2cuts
  • Score: 0

4:37pm Thu 19 Jan 12

iklhik says...

Maybe a fair compromise would be for the NHS to provide items but at cost price - with their buying power, it should be cheaper than the supermarket if managed correctly. That way if people want to pay the premium for GF products they can do, if not they can make alternative arrangements.

After all, the country is broke and we all have to tighten our belts. I'd like to eat meat every day, many people would consider that a "staple" part of their diet but I can't afford it and I doubt the NHS will prescribe me any!
Maybe a fair compromise would be for the NHS to provide items but at cost price - with their buying power, it should be cheaper than the supermarket if managed correctly. That way if people want to pay the premium for GF products they can do, if not they can make alternative arrangements. After all, the country is broke and we all have to tighten our belts. I'd like to eat meat every day, many people would consider that a "staple" part of their diet but I can't afford it and I doubt the NHS will prescribe me any! iklhik
  • Score: 0

6:03pm Thu 19 Jan 12

oxfordborn says...

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this decision (and I think it is a wrong one) it should be a very clear example of just how expensive being sick can be. In some of the arguments over welfare cuts, it is suggested that being sick, especially long term, isn't costly. The comments here show why the sick tend to be amongst the poorest in our society.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of this decision (and I think it is a wrong one) it should be a very clear example of just how expensive being sick can be. In some of the arguments over welfare cuts, it is suggested that being sick, especially long term, isn't costly. The comments here show why the sick tend to be amongst the poorest in our society. oxfordborn
  • Score: 0

7:37pm Thu 19 Jan 12

SwampieUK says...

no2cuts wrote:
John35 wrote:
Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.
I am a coeliac and I do not agree with this at all. I think you are wedded to convenience. There is absolutely no NEED to eat pasta or bread ever: there are so many other things you can eat. I think as a society we should get away from the idea that cereal based products are a necessity. We call them 'staples' and the somehow makes them sound essential, but clearly anyone can live without them. It is a little less convenient, but not much more difficult or time consuming at all.
Are people wedded to convenience? Are the prescriptions for gluten-free food totally convenient? Or do they involve appointments with a Dietitian to discuss options then appointments with doctors to get a prescription, then regular trips to pharmacies to collect and pay. I don’t mean to complain, just put things into context from the perspective of a 25 yr old.
The suggestions around cooking completely from scratch are great if they work for you. But please don’t assume that access to an uncontaminated cooking facility exists, it certainly doesn’t in my student accommodation ;)

It might be a little unrealistic to expect the UK population to give up cereals as the staple way of getting carbohydrate (so John35 might need to just accept that this is the case). I think that children with coeliac disease have the right to a sandwich made from gluten free bread. Sure if they have a brilliant mum who will prepare rice cracker sandwiches then this is one option but this isn't always applicable and isn’t school/ teenage life hard enough without making yourself ‘different’?

I think that this proposal by the NHS in Oxfordshire is wrong. The fact that there are such apposing responses suggests to me that the prescriptions should remain available so medical people can decide when they are required on a case-by-case basis.

From my experience, the supply chain is long and maybe there is some opportunity to make efficiency savings here?
For us, prescriptions work with my wife ticking items on her repeat prescription and handing it into the pharmacy which is 5 mins walk away. Pharmacy drops repeat prescription into doctors who authorise it and issue new prescription which pharmacy picks up. This can take a few days before the prescription is ready, and as the bread we get is 'fresh' bread (baked the day before delivery using specially processed flours which are wheat based, but have had the gluten removed I believe - and far more like real bread than the stuff in supermarkets) and as they only bake on particular days, it can again be a few days before the bread arrives at the pharmacy. 5 minute walk round the corner to get the bread.

However, if you're not on the ball with your repeat prescription (i.e. you run out and then hand it in), you might have a week or so to wait - which then requires supermarket bread for a few days - or, what often happens - my wife just doesn't eat as much (which then leads to weight loss). (You'd be amazed at how lack of availability of reasonably tasting food can affect someone's appetite and it's not uncommon for coeliacs to also have depression). Coeliacs also have higher risk of osteoporosis due to their bowels generally not absorbing things (e.g. nutrients and calcium) so well. So the supermarket "free-from" bread, which is also milk free - is actually not recommended.

So, it doesn't require lots of appointments and doctor time (repeats generally get a glance from the doctor before pressing print).

My wife gets an annual gastro checkup with someone at the hospital, and if they're concerned with blood tests or symptoms etc, she may end up having another endoscopy to check for damage etc. I think over the years she's had nearly half a dozen or so endoscopies, along with many more blood tests etc. She's been diagnosed for about 10 years. I suspect the cost of monitoring, investigations and checkups probably is similar to cost of prescriptions over that time!

Time will tell what the long term effects of coeliac disease will have on my wife. As it stands, she can't get critical illness life insurance because they cannot be sure what effects it'll have long term.
[quote][p][bold]no2cuts[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John35[/bold] wrote: [quote]Unless you have Coeliac disease, or live with someone who does, it's unlikely you'll fully appreciate the amount of planning ahead and expense it can take just to stop yourself getting ill - every meal time for the rest of your life. Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.[/quote] I am a coeliac and I do not agree with this at all. I think you are wedded to convenience. There is absolutely no NEED to eat pasta or bread ever: there are so many other things you can eat. I think as a society we should get away from the idea that cereal based products are a necessity. We call them 'staples' and the somehow makes them sound essential, but clearly anyone can live without them. It is a little less convenient, but not much more difficult or time consuming at all.[/p][/quote]Are people wedded to convenience? Are the prescriptions for gluten-free food totally convenient? Or do they involve appointments with a Dietitian to discuss options then appointments with doctors to get a prescription, then regular trips to pharmacies to collect and pay. I don’t mean to complain, just put things into context from the perspective of a 25 yr old. The suggestions around cooking completely from scratch are great if they work for you. But please don’t assume that access to an uncontaminated cooking facility exists, it certainly doesn’t in my student accommodation ;) It might be a little unrealistic to expect the UK population to give up cereals as the staple way of getting carbohydrate (so John35 might need to just accept that this is the case). I think that children with coeliac disease have the right to a sandwich made from gluten free bread. Sure if they have a brilliant mum who will prepare rice cracker sandwiches then this is one option but this isn't always applicable and isn’t school/ teenage life hard enough without making yourself ‘different’? I think that this proposal by the NHS in Oxfordshire is wrong. The fact that there are such apposing responses suggests to me that the prescriptions should remain available so medical people can decide when they are required on a case-by-case basis. From my experience, the supply chain is long and maybe there is some opportunity to make efficiency savings here?[/p][/quote]For us, prescriptions work with my wife ticking items on her repeat prescription and handing it into the pharmacy which is 5 mins walk away. Pharmacy drops repeat prescription into doctors who authorise it and issue new prescription which pharmacy picks up. This can take a few days before the prescription is ready, and as the bread we get is 'fresh' bread (baked the day before delivery using specially processed flours which are wheat based, but have had the gluten removed I believe - and far more like real bread than the stuff in supermarkets) and as they only bake on particular days, it can again be a few days before the bread arrives at the pharmacy. 5 minute walk round the corner to get the bread. However, if you're not on the ball with your repeat prescription (i.e. you run out and then hand it in), you might have a week or so to wait - which then requires supermarket bread for a few days - or, what often happens - my wife just doesn't eat as much (which then leads to weight loss). (You'd be amazed at how lack of availability of reasonably tasting food can affect someone's appetite and it's not uncommon for coeliacs to also have depression). Coeliacs also have higher risk of osteoporosis due to their bowels generally not absorbing things (e.g. nutrients and calcium) so well. So the supermarket "free-from" bread, which is also milk free - is actually not recommended. So, it doesn't require lots of appointments and doctor time (repeats generally get a glance from the doctor before pressing print). My wife gets an annual gastro checkup with someone at the hospital, and if they're concerned with blood tests or symptoms etc, she may end up having another endoscopy to check for damage etc. I think over the years she's had nearly half a dozen or so endoscopies, along with many more blood tests etc. She's been diagnosed for about 10 years. I suspect the cost of monitoring, investigations and checkups probably is similar to cost of prescriptions over that time! Time will tell what the long term effects of coeliac disease will have on my wife. As it stands, she can't get critical illness life insurance because they cannot be sure what effects it'll have long term. SwampieUK
  • Score: 0

2:36pm Fri 20 Jan 12

evain says...

This is disgusting, Gluten free food should be available to coeliacs on prescription either that or the manufacturers that supply to supermarkets should have to be forced to charge a normal price for their goods the food is more expensive to produce therefore more expensive to purchase so i think should be continued on prescription.

In that case dont give nicorette to smokers on prescription - they can stop smoking.

Stop giving anti obesity drugs to overweight people - they can stop eating.

Coelicas have no choice but to eat this food and the NHS needs to reevaluate this !
This is disgusting, Gluten free food should be available to coeliacs on prescription either that or the manufacturers that supply to supermarkets should have to be forced to charge a normal price for their goods the food is more expensive to produce therefore more expensive to purchase so i think should be continued on prescription. In that case dont give nicorette to smokers on prescription - they can stop smoking. Stop giving anti obesity drugs to overweight people - they can stop eating. Coelicas have no choice but to eat this food and the NHS needs to reevaluate this ! evain
  • Score: 0

3:55pm Fri 20 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

What?! Just eat something else as staple like rice...
What?! Just eat something else as staple like rice... Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

4:33pm Fri 20 Jan 12

elperrohavuelto says...

evain wrote:
This is disgusting, Gluten free food should be available to coeliacs on prescription either that or the manufacturers that supply to supermarkets should have to be forced to charge a normal price for their goods the food is more expensive to produce therefore more expensive to purchase so i think should be continued on prescription.

In that case dont give nicorette to smokers on prescription - they can stop smoking.

Stop giving anti obesity drugs to overweight people - they can stop eating.

Coelicas have no choice but to eat this food and the NHS needs to reevaluate this !
I am not a Coeliac and I think this decision is disgusting because the implications of not keeping to a strict diet can have such devastating effects.
They never chose to have this disease which is why I have quoted ‘evain’ because they point out treatments available via prescription for people who have chosen to go down that path in life should be stopped way before this one.
A lot of what I want to say has been said so I won’t repeat it, but I wholeheartedly hope this decision does not go forward because these people should not be penalised, Coeliac children should have easy affordable access to a varied diet by their parents rather than seeing bread sandwiches as a ‘treat’.
I hope they see sense.
[quote][p][bold]evain[/bold] wrote: This is disgusting, Gluten free food should be available to coeliacs on prescription either that or the manufacturers that supply to supermarkets should have to be forced to charge a normal price for their goods the food is more expensive to produce therefore more expensive to purchase so i think should be continued on prescription. In that case dont give nicorette to smokers on prescription - they can stop smoking. Stop giving anti obesity drugs to overweight people - they can stop eating. Coelicas have no choice but to eat this food and the NHS needs to reevaluate this ![/p][/quote]I am not a Coeliac and I think this decision is disgusting because the implications of not keeping to a strict diet can have such devastating effects. They never chose to have this disease which is why I have quoted ‘evain’ because they point out treatments available via prescription for people who have chosen to go down that path in life should be stopped way before this one. A lot of what I want to say has been said so I won’t repeat it, but I wholeheartedly hope this decision does not go forward because these people should not be penalised, Coeliac children should have easy affordable access to a varied diet by their parents rather than seeing bread sandwiches as a ‘treat’. I hope they see sense. elperrohavuelto
  • Score: 0

4:42pm Fri 20 Jan 12

fkcukuhaters says...

LadyPenelope wrote:
Ultimately, there are SO many foods that a coeliac CAN eat, so why not focus on these? Why do you HAVE to eat bread or pasta etc...?

Choospath - I have a young family and work, and cook from scratch every night too, and fresh pasta takes about 10 mins to make and 3 mins to cook - hardly much effort.

You can also make giant ravioli for school lunches, and get them to pick their own fillings.
Ultimately Coeliac's are deprived of other 90 % of the world foods . There is not so much to eat is you suffer from Coeliac Disease . You obviously know nothing about living on a gluten free diet and all the health problems it causes . So unless you get diagnosed with CD you know nothing !

Try cooking pasta with Gluten Free pasta in 10 mins you will FAIL .
[quote][p][bold]LadyPenelope[/bold] wrote: Ultimately, there are SO many foods that a coeliac CAN eat, so why not focus on these? Why do you HAVE to eat bread or pasta etc...? Choospath - I have a young family and work, and cook from scratch every night too, and fresh pasta takes about 10 mins to make and 3 mins to cook - hardly much effort. You can also make giant ravioli for school lunches, and get them to pick their own fillings.[/p][/quote]Ultimately Coeliac's are deprived of other 90 % of the world foods . There is not so much to eat is you suffer from Coeliac Disease . You obviously know nothing about living on a gluten free diet and all the health problems it causes . So unless you get diagnosed with CD you know nothing ! Try cooking pasta with Gluten Free pasta in 10 mins you will FAIL . fkcukuhaters
  • Score: 0

4:45pm Fri 20 Jan 12

fkcukuhaters says...

EMBOX1 wrote:
After reading all these posts, I apologies to those who suffer from this awful problem. I wasn't aware it was such a debilitating illness if not managed correctly.

However...

It seems clear that if the so-called "gluten-free" foods in the supermarkets are in fact NOT gluten free, then the supermarkets need to be taken to task. There should also be no reason why the prices are 2 to 7 times more than regular varieties.

Do health-food/whole food shops not have a better range of products, and if so, what is the price difference?
We don't want your apology !

Don't right BS about something you don't understand . Only people with CD can relate to this article.
[quote][p][bold]EMBOX1[/bold] wrote: After reading all these posts, I apologies to those who suffer from this awful problem. I wasn't aware it was such a debilitating illness if not managed correctly. However... It seems clear that if the so-called "gluten-free" foods in the supermarkets are in fact NOT gluten free, then the supermarkets need to be taken to task. There should also be no reason why the prices are 2 to 7 times more than regular varieties. Do health-food/whole food shops not have a better range of products, and if so, what is the price difference?[/p][/quote]We don't want your apology ! Don't right BS about something you don't understand . Only people with CD can relate to this article. fkcukuhaters
  • Score: 0

4:50pm Fri 20 Jan 12

TempestJT says...

To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet.

I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness!
To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet. I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness! TempestJT
  • Score: 0

4:50pm Fri 20 Jan 12

fkcukuhaters says...

suesmithoon wrote:
Reading through people’s comments it’s clear that there are strong feelings on both sides of the argument. I don’t have Coeliac disease and I don’t claim to be an expert on ‘medicine’ or’ diet’.

As a taxpayer I interpret from this thread that Oxfordshire’s NHS are trying to:

•Remove a treatment (the sole treatment) from all Oxfordshire residents whether or not there is a risk of harm.

•Ignore the national guidelines that would give fair access to everybody; whatever your postcode.

•Justify their plans by downgrading a diagnosis to ‘intolerance’ (to make it sound like a fad or phase that people go through).

•Lie to us by saying that the availably in shops is equal to pharmacies and that everybody will afford/ bother.

•Make us feel guilty for spending £350’000 without putting this into context . What do taxpayers spend on all prescriptions? On hip fractures? Infertility treatment? Cancer?

•Spend my money on this distasteful process of taking away a treatment from people rather than improving things.

I can only conclude that I must oppose NHS Oxfordshire's plans- otherwise what on earth will they do with my NHS next?
How the Fcuk can you downgrade a serious auto immune disease to a ‘intolerance’ ?

Ridiculous comment.
[quote][p][bold]suesmithoon[/bold] wrote: Reading through people’s comments it’s clear that there are strong feelings on both sides of the argument. I don’t have Coeliac disease and I don’t claim to be an expert on ‘medicine’ or’ diet’. As a taxpayer I interpret from this thread that Oxfordshire’s NHS are trying to: •Remove a treatment (the sole treatment) from all Oxfordshire residents whether or not there is a risk of harm. •Ignore the national guidelines that would give fair access to everybody; whatever your postcode. •Justify their plans by downgrading a diagnosis to ‘intolerance’ (to make it sound like a fad or phase that people go through). •Lie to us by saying that the availably in shops is equal to pharmacies and that everybody will afford/ bother. •Make us feel guilty for spending £350’000 without putting this into context . What do taxpayers spend on all prescriptions? On hip fractures? Infertility treatment? Cancer? •Spend my money on this distasteful process of taking away a treatment from people rather than improving things. I can only conclude that I must oppose NHS Oxfordshire's plans- otherwise what on earth will they do with my NHS next?[/p][/quote]How the Fcuk can you downgrade a serious auto immune disease to a ‘intolerance’ ? Ridiculous comment. fkcukuhaters
  • Score: 0

4:50pm Fri 20 Jan 12

TempestJT says...

To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet.

I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness!
To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet. I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness! TempestJT
  • Score: 0

4:55pm Fri 20 Jan 12

fkcukuhaters says...

TempestJT wrote:
To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet.

I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness!
I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness!

:S is all I can say . The prescriptions provide breads and other foods that are 1 unavaliable in 90 % of shops and 2 the supermarket shops don't put all the vitamins and minerals in the foods which real gluten free prescription companies do.
[quote][p][bold]TempestJT[/bold] wrote: To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet. I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness![/p][/quote]I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness! :S is all I can say . The prescriptions provide breads and other foods that are 1 unavaliable in 90 % of shops and 2 the supermarket shops don't put all the vitamins and minerals in the foods which real gluten free prescription companies do. fkcukuhaters
  • Score: 0

4:56pm Fri 20 Jan 12

fkcukuhaters says...

I'm shocked at some of the comments expecting Coeliac's to pay for the foods they need to stay alive . As if suffering from CD isn't bad enough.

I don't know what gives people the right to say we should pay for our own food when you know nothing about CD !
I'm shocked at some of the comments expecting Coeliac's to pay for the foods they need to stay alive . As if suffering from CD isn't bad enough. I don't know what gives people the right to say we should pay for our own food when you know nothing about CD ! fkcukuhaters
  • Score: 0

6:51pm Fri 20 Jan 12

RainbowH says...

I am coeliac myself, and I am very disapointed in this. I do have prescription foods and it really does help with the cost, we are not just talking about buying more expensive bread, pasta, flour, cereals or whatever there is so much more to it like sauces and things or own brand stuff/cheaper brands often contain gluten whereas more expensive brands may not it affects your entire food shop and does make it a lot more expensive.

I always knew this would happen as more and more people become coeliac is just not sustainable for the NHS to keep helping subsidise the basic food. I will be sad to see this go, but do think there is a MUCH better answer to it all. I do not have an issue paying to live I have worked hard all my life and always paid taxes etc - I will happily by my own food but lets attack the manufactorers and supermarkets to produce the GF subsitutes cheaper - infact MANY products never really need Gluten in them in the first place - trust me I know we have to make a lot from scratch these days.

One other point to the person who said we need nutritional advice! You clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about.... we get it on the NHS - we are referred to a dietician - however they cannot tell you anything - they cannot even tell you which foods are gluten free so excuse me if I follow my own nutritional advice and plan my own balanced diet - which yes is a lot healthier since i was diagnosed as you do start looking into other options but this takes time to get used to the diet and the in-and-outs of it and all the hidden gluten in foods. It is hard enough to work out to start with - and yes if life threatening if you slip up 'none of this cheating lark' I have never cheated on the diet but I have slipped up by accident before as there was some hidden gluten! It is a massive learning curve which is very expensive you have to buy more than the food for example we have in our house 2 toasters - 1 GF and 1 not - 2 sandwich makers and a very expensive breadmaker than can cope with GF mixes.

So I suggest that you give coeliacs a break it isn't an easy life! This comes from someone who is experienced and has it well under control - a lot don't get there and need help - it is a life threatening condition unlike other food tolerances - although due to my circumstances I am very sympathetic to anyone with food allergies but its not quite the same, if they eat some by accident its not doing to do permanent damage to their body.

If this is the way the NHS goes then fair enough we will cope and cut back in other areas of our life as everyone does. But its sad and I really hope the manufacturers and supermarkets do something about their prices to ease this strain.

Anyone who doubts this I would challenge them to do a month completely gluten free and I mean completely but I guess its silly as I know as much as anyone else you can go without things for a month or 2 - but when your talking in years or in terms of you will never eat that again... not so easy - substitutes are and always will be sought at some point - even by the most healthy eaters of us.

A sad day for Oxfordshire!
I am coeliac myself, and I am very disapointed in this. I do have prescription foods and it really does help with the cost, we are not just talking about buying more expensive bread, pasta, flour, cereals or whatever there is so much more to it like sauces and things or own brand stuff/cheaper brands often contain gluten whereas more expensive brands may not it affects your entire food shop and does make it a lot more expensive. I always knew this would happen as more and more people become coeliac is just not sustainable for the NHS to keep helping subsidise the basic food. I will be sad to see this go, but do think there is a MUCH better answer to it all. I do not have an issue paying to live I have worked hard all my life and always paid taxes etc - I will happily by my own food but lets attack the manufactorers and supermarkets to produce the GF subsitutes cheaper - infact MANY products never really need Gluten in them in the first place - trust me I know we have to make a lot from scratch these days. One other point to the person who said we need nutritional advice! You clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about.... we get it on the NHS - we are referred to a dietician - however they cannot tell you anything - they cannot even tell you which foods are gluten free so excuse me if I follow my own nutritional advice and plan my own balanced diet - which yes is a lot healthier since i was diagnosed as you do start looking into other options but this takes time to get used to the diet and the in-and-outs of it and all the hidden gluten in foods. It is hard enough to work out to start with - and yes if life threatening if you slip up 'none of this cheating lark' I have never cheated on the diet but I have slipped up by accident before as there was some hidden gluten! It is a massive learning curve which is very expensive you have to buy more than the food for example we have in our house 2 toasters - 1 GF and 1 not - 2 sandwich makers and a very expensive breadmaker than can cope with GF mixes. So I suggest that you give coeliacs a break it isn't an easy life! This comes from someone who is experienced and has it well under control - a lot don't get there and need help - it is a life threatening condition unlike other food tolerances - although due to my circumstances I am very sympathetic to anyone with food allergies but its not quite the same, if they eat some by accident its not doing to do permanent damage to their body. If this is the way the NHS goes then fair enough we will cope and cut back in other areas of our life as everyone does. But its sad and I really hope the manufacturers and supermarkets do something about their prices to ease this strain. Anyone who doubts this I would challenge them to do a month completely gluten free and I mean completely but I guess its silly as I know as much as anyone else you can go without things for a month or 2 - but when your talking in years or in terms of you will never eat that again... not so easy - substitutes are and always will be sought at some point - even by the most healthy eaters of us. A sad day for Oxfordshire! RainbowH
  • Score: 0

7:38pm Fri 20 Jan 12

TempestJT says...

fkcukuhaters wrote:
TempestJT wrote:
To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet.

I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness!
I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness!

:S is all I can say . The prescriptions provide breads and other foods that are 1 unavaliable in 90 % of shops and 2 the supermarket shops don't put all the vitamins and minerals in the foods which real gluten free prescription companies do.
And these prescribed products are available to buy online, which you would know if you researched it!
[quote][p][bold]fkcukuhaters[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TempestJT[/bold] wrote: To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet. I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness![/p][/quote]I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness! :S is all I can say . The prescriptions provide breads and other foods that are 1 unavaliable in 90 % of shops and 2 the supermarket shops don't put all the vitamins and minerals in the foods which real gluten free prescription companies do.[/p][/quote]And these prescribed products are available to buy online, which you would know if you researched it! TempestJT
  • Score: 0

7:59pm Fri 20 Jan 12

RainbowH says...

buying online is also expensive as i have done so sometimes - you maybe able to get around these things being essential in your diet... but you have to learn this first. I could not cook at all when I was diagnose so had to learn how to do that too so many food options were not an option till i knew how they could be used in meals etc.

I don't get too much from prescription but it is still useful as i said earlier - I however am certainly not uneducated about my condition.

As I said its a big learning curve for people and once they have gone through this they do start to rely less on the prescription products anyway but to start with they are a life saver!

Plus its a hell of a trip to go to 10 different shops to get all your food shopping which is often what I have to do where things are not avaliable in every store or only some stores.
buying online is also expensive as i have done so sometimes - you maybe able to get around these things being essential in your diet... but you have to learn this first. I could not cook at all when I was diagnose so had to learn how to do that too so many food options were not an option till i knew how they could be used in meals etc. I don't get too much from prescription but it is still useful as i said earlier - I however am certainly not uneducated about my condition. As I said its a big learning curve for people and once they have gone through this they do start to rely less on the prescription products anyway but to start with they are a life saver! Plus its a hell of a trip to go to 10 different shops to get all your food shopping which is often what I have to do where things are not avaliable in every store or only some stores. RainbowH
  • Score: 0

8:47pm Fri 20 Jan 12

listentoyourself says...

It sounds an awful condition/illness, and please excuse my ignorance on Coeliac disease, however please help me understand, as I think people with Nut allergies have to do an equal amount of product research before eating, do they get foodstuffs on prescription?

I appreciate the extra time it takes to cook, but a vast amount of people with varying illnesses take a lot longer than what would be the norm to do many daily chores.

Maybe as many say there needs to be pressure on suppliers to reduce costs, but trying to see all arguments maybe the costs are higher due to economies of scale?

But on a lighter note, do not worry about the NHS, they were charging me £7.40 per month for 8 tiny folic acid tablets (to go alongside Methotrexate) for some time before I realised I could either pay the £100 odd per year pre-payment, or get 100 of them for £2 myself at Tesco (sorry to some for mentioning the word Tesco).

And please don’t have a pop about me mentioning the NHS, its tongue in cheek as I have over the years had a lot to thank them for.
It sounds an awful condition/illness, and please excuse my ignorance on Coeliac disease, however please help me understand, as I think people with Nut allergies have to do an equal amount of product research before eating, do they get foodstuffs on prescription? I appreciate the extra time it takes to cook, but a vast amount of people with varying illnesses take a lot longer than what would be the norm to do many daily chores. Maybe as many say there needs to be pressure on suppliers to reduce costs, but trying to see all arguments maybe the costs are higher due to economies of scale? But on a lighter note, do not worry about the NHS, they were charging me £7.40 per month for 8 tiny folic acid tablets (to go alongside Methotrexate) for some time before I realised I could either pay the £100 odd per year pre-payment, or get 100 of them for £2 myself at Tesco (sorry to some for mentioning the word Tesco). And please don’t have a pop about me mentioning the NHS, its tongue in cheek as I have over the years had a lot to thank them for. listentoyourself
  • Score: 0

8:59pm Fri 20 Jan 12

RainbowH says...

and me as well, they have saved my life and i have had very good treatment!

you have a valid point about nut allegeries being anaphylactic myself to wasp stings I know how bad that is, i can only imagine how awful that must be to watch for it in foods... and to be honest it is such a complex area I dont have an answer for you.
and me as well, they have saved my life and i have had very good treatment! you have a valid point about nut allegeries being anaphylactic myself to wasp stings I know how bad that is, i can only imagine how awful that must be to watch for it in foods... and to be honest it is such a complex area I dont have an answer for you. RainbowH
  • Score: 0

10:11pm Fri 20 Jan 12

SproKet says...

Our child has severe anaphylaxis to tomato, shellfish and peanuts.
Mild allergic reactions sweet peppers, aubergines, un-peeled potatoes, and products containing soya. (all related to the allergenic foods)
We also have to avoid anything that may be contaminated in the same processing plant, so we have to avoid all nuts, all fish and almost everything processed.

We are hard working parents who are employed full-time.
We manage to cook healthy food from scratch and prepare packed lunches.
We have to, otherwise our child will die.

The only item we get on prescription? EpiPen Jr.
Our child has severe anaphylaxis to tomato, shellfish and peanuts. Mild allergic reactions sweet peppers, aubergines, un-peeled potatoes, and products containing soya. (all related to the allergenic foods) We also have to avoid anything that may be contaminated in the same processing plant, so we have to avoid all nuts, all fish and almost everything processed. We are hard working parents who are employed full-time. We manage to cook healthy food from scratch and prepare packed lunches. We have to, otherwise our child will die. The only item we get on prescription? EpiPen Jr. SproKet
  • Score: 0

5:32am Sat 21 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

This article shows just how dependant on the NHS some people are becoming is using it for lifestyle shopping choices ever right?

Although I understand that when the 'free' products weren't available the NHS had to supply these product but is it right to expect this to go on for ever, I wonder what the total UK cost is?

And can the UK afford this for products that are available in supermarkets?

The only other option is make it available from the NHS at full cost, after all it is just food
This article shows just how dependant on the NHS some people are becoming is using it for lifestyle shopping choices ever right? Although I understand that when the 'free' products weren't available the NHS had to supply these product but is it right to expect this to go on for ever, I wonder what the total UK cost is? And can the UK afford this for products that are available in supermarkets? The only other option is make it available from the NHS at full cost, after all it is just food Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

12:00pm Sat 21 Jan 12

angryfreak says...

Darkforbid wrote:
This article shows just how dependant on the NHS some people are becoming is using it for lifestyle shopping choices ever right? Although I understand that when the 'free' products weren't available the NHS had to supply these product but is it right to expect this to go on for ever, I wonder what the total UK cost is? And can the UK afford this for products that are available in supermarkets? The only other option is make it available from the NHS at full cost, after all it is just food
You are missing the point this is not a lifestyle choice it's a matter of life and death . You are very very lucky you don't have CD !
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: This article shows just how dependant on the NHS some people are becoming is using it for lifestyle shopping choices ever right? Although I understand that when the 'free' products weren't available the NHS had to supply these product but is it right to expect this to go on for ever, I wonder what the total UK cost is? And can the UK afford this for products that are available in supermarkets? The only other option is make it available from the NHS at full cost, after all it is just food[/p][/quote]You are missing the point this is not a lifestyle choice it's a matter of life and death . You are very very lucky you don't have CD ! angryfreak
  • Score: 0

12:05pm Sat 21 Jan 12

angryfreak says...

TempestJT wrote:
fkcukuhaters wrote:
TempestJT wrote: To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet. I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness!
I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness! :S is all I can say . The prescriptions provide breads and other foods that are 1 unavaliable in 90 % of shops and 2 the supermarket shops don't put all the vitamins and minerals in the foods which real gluten free prescription companies do.
And these prescribed products are available to buy online, which you would know if you researched it!
TempestJT what a strange comment. People with CD do nothing but research looking for new foods all the time and if knew treatments come avliable . I read books about CD that doctors are too lazy to read.

The products are avliable online £8 for a packet of flour . £3 for 10 biscuits shame you don't have CD !
[quote][p][bold]TempestJT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]fkcukuhaters[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TempestJT[/bold] wrote: To be frank, gluten free living is neither restrictive or hard. I know as I do it everyday for my son and never use prescriptions. People are obsessed with white bread, pasta and cake! Its not essential at all in a diet. I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness![/p][/quote]I think the problem is people who rely in prescriptions are too scared to research their food or think for themselves. It's sad to read such incorrect comments from so many coeliacs who are uneducated about their own illness! :S is all I can say . The prescriptions provide breads and other foods that are 1 unavaliable in 90 % of shops and 2 the supermarket shops don't put all the vitamins and minerals in the foods which real gluten free prescription companies do.[/p][/quote]And these prescribed products are available to buy online, which you would know if you researched it![/p][/quote]TempestJT what a strange comment. People with CD do nothing but research looking for new foods all the time and if knew treatments come avliable . I read books about CD that doctors are too lazy to read. The products are avliable online £8 for a packet of flour . £3 for 10 biscuits shame you don't have CD ! angryfreak
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Sat 21 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

┄You are missing the point
this is not a lifestyle choice
it's a matter of life and death. You are very very lucky you don't have CD!┄

Matter of life and death, yep you may have twice the mortality rate, but the answer still the same, avoid wheat and wheat based... That's not the only staple food on the planet you know
┄You are missing the point this is not a lifestyle choice it's a matter of life and death. You are very very lucky you don't have CD!┄ Matter of life and death, yep you may have twice the mortality rate, but the answer still the same, avoid wheat and wheat based... That's not the only staple food on the planet you know Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

2:21pm Sat 21 Jan 12

SupaMum says...

I love the generalisation that some people are using on here, forgetting that we are all very different people with different attitudes rightly or wrongly.
I do not have CD but I work with children on a daily basis in a role that sometimes see me deal with difficult situations. I have seen firsthand children with CD not given a gluten-free diet because it is either too expensive or too much hassle, or simply have a diet of potatoes with their only variety being chipped or mashed, parents actually choosing to damage their child’s health. As shocking as that sounds it is fact none the less.
I work very hard with these parents normally of a lower income and of poor education themselves to realise how much damage they are doing, and only the foods on prescription help me in getting them to provide some much needed nurturance to those children’s diets.
This move will have devastating effects if it goes ahead, I am shocked and extremely disappointed the NHS is even considering this move, what a awful state our country has got itself in to.
I love the generalisation that some people are using on here, forgetting that we are all very different people with different attitudes rightly or wrongly. I do not have CD but I work with children on a daily basis in a role that sometimes see me deal with difficult situations. I have seen firsthand children with CD not given a gluten-free diet because it is either too expensive or too much hassle, or simply have a diet of potatoes with their only variety being chipped or mashed, parents actually choosing to damage their child’s health. As shocking as that sounds it is fact none the less. I work very hard with these parents normally of a lower income and of poor education themselves to realise how much damage they are doing, and only the foods on prescription help me in getting them to provide some much needed nurturance to those children’s diets. This move will have devastating effects if it goes ahead, I am shocked and extremely disappointed the NHS is even considering this move, what a awful state our country has got itself in to. SupaMum
  • Score: 0

2:56pm Sat 21 Jan 12

xjohnx says...

I don't want my tax money spent on feeding people with a food intolerance. I helped pay (via taxes) for the research and diagnosis and don't begrudge it for a minute. However, gluten free is NOT a treatment or medication. The taxpayer should not foot the bill.
I don't want my tax money spent on feeding people with a food intolerance. I helped pay (via taxes) for the research and diagnosis and don't begrudge it for a minute. However, gluten free is NOT a treatment or medication. The taxpayer should not foot the bill. xjohnx
  • Score: 0

3:59pm Sat 21 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

Well said, its like arguing that anybody who has to have more expensive, specialised diet for medical reasons should have their food bill covered by the NHS
Well said, its like arguing that anybody who has to have more expensive, specialised diet for medical reasons should have their food bill covered by the NHS Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

5:37pm Sat 21 Jan 12

Ians view says...

Gluten-free foods are: Gluten-free bread, pizza, pasta, biscuits, cakes, cornflakes, etc

Are these "essentials"?

I'm gluten-free, but do not buy these alternative junk foods, my health is too important to me.

Coeliac UK wants the NHS to give people free junk food!

Those of us who are unable to consume gluten, who have read up on the alternatives, are aware that the alternative products are potentially as bad for our health as gluten.

Why is Coeliac UK so ignorant - or do they have a vested interest in the sales of junk food?
Gluten-free foods are: Gluten-free bread, pizza, pasta, biscuits, cakes, cornflakes, etc Are these "essentials"? I'm gluten-free, but do not buy these alternative junk foods, my health is too important to me. Coeliac UK wants the NHS to give people free junk food! Those of us who are unable to consume gluten, who have read up on the alternatives, are aware that the alternative products are potentially as bad for our health as gluten. Why is Coeliac UK so ignorant - or do they have a vested interest in the sales of junk food? Ians view
  • Score: 0

6:05pm Sat 21 Jan 12

elperrohavuelto says...

xjohnx wrote:
I don't want my tax money spent on feeding people with a food intolerance. I helped pay (via taxes) for the research and diagnosis and don't begrudge it for a minute. However, gluten free is NOT a treatment or medication. The taxpayer should not foot the bill.
What an idiot, after 70 plus post on the topics you’re still referring to Coeliac DISEASE as an intolerance..... if you can’t understand the core issue of a problem keep to page 3 of the sun.
[quote][p][bold]xjohnx[/bold] wrote: I don't want my tax money spent on feeding people with a food intolerance. I helped pay (via taxes) for the research and diagnosis and don't begrudge it for a minute. However, gluten free is NOT a treatment or medication. The taxpayer should not foot the bill.[/p][/quote]What an idiot, after 70 plus post on the topics you’re still referring to Coeliac DISEASE as an intolerance..... if you can’t understand the core issue of a problem keep to page 3 of the sun. elperrohavuelto
  • Score: 0

6:21pm Sat 21 Jan 12

elperrohavuelto says...

Ians view wrote:
Gluten-free foods are: Gluten-free bread, pizza, pasta, biscuits, cakes, cornflakes, etc

Are these "essentials"?

I'm gluten-free, but do not buy these alternative junk foods, my health is too important to me.

Coeliac UK wants the NHS to give people free junk food!

Those of us who are unable to consume gluten, who have read up on the alternatives, are aware that the alternative products are potentially as bad for our health as gluten.

Why is Coeliac UK so ignorant - or do they have a vested interest in the sales of junk food?
There are a lot of people here claiming to be a Coeliac but have very little understanding of the disease and the prescriptions currently available to them, which leads me to think some people are telling porky pies to try an legitimise their invalid point.
I am NOT a Coeliac but I know some people that are, I also know the difference between an intolerance and a disease, and I have seen firsthand Coeliac children who would disagree with you and a few other supposed Coeliacs on here about your definition of “essential” when referring to flour, bread, pasta when you’re trying to fit into a society that cares very little about what crap people put in their body thanks to the ready meal society we sadly live in.
As ‘SupaMum’ pointed out a few posts back we are not a society of people who all think and act the same, and the removal of these products on prescription at a time when supermarket alternatives are still far too expensive for the majority of people it will be devastating to so many people’s lives of all ages.
[quote][p][bold]Ians view[/bold] wrote: Gluten-free foods are: Gluten-free bread, pizza, pasta, biscuits, cakes, cornflakes, etc Are these "essentials"? I'm gluten-free, but do not buy these alternative junk foods, my health is too important to me. Coeliac UK wants the NHS to give people free junk food! Those of us who are unable to consume gluten, who have read up on the alternatives, are aware that the alternative products are potentially as bad for our health as gluten. Why is Coeliac UK so ignorant - or do they have a vested interest in the sales of junk food?[/p][/quote]There are a lot of people here claiming to be a Coeliac but have very little understanding of the disease and the prescriptions currently available to them, which leads me to think some people are telling porky pies to try an legitimise their invalid point. I am NOT a Coeliac but I know some people that are, I also know the difference between an intolerance and a disease, and I have seen firsthand Coeliac children who would disagree with you and a few other supposed Coeliacs on here about your definition of “essential” when referring to flour, bread, pasta when you’re trying to fit into a society that cares very little about what crap people put in their body thanks to the ready meal society we sadly live in. As ‘SupaMum’ pointed out a few posts back we are not a society of people who all think and act the same, and the removal of these products on prescription at a time when supermarket alternatives are still far too expensive for the majority of people it will be devastating to so many people’s lives of all ages. elperrohavuelto
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Sun 22 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

┄There are a lot of people here
claiming to be a Coeliac but
have very little understanding
of the disease and the
prescriptions currently
available to them, which
leads me to think some
people are telling porky pies
to try an legitimise their
invalid point.┄

Why because some people with CD, say they manage fine without NHS support...

┄I am NOT a Coeliac but I
know some people that are, I
also know the difference
between an intolerance and a
disease┄

Well done! Now explain what the disease causes an intolerance to

┄and I have seen
firsthand Coeliac children
who would disagree with you
and a few other supposed
Coeliacs on here about your
definition of “essential” when
referring to flour, bread, pasta
when you’re trying to fit into a
society that cares very little
about what crap people put in
their body thanks to the
ready meal society we sadly
live in.┄

Someone with CD should stay away from wheat based foods, not expect the NHS to provide modified replacements... Are rice based products unavailable as well, or potatos hard to buy... Theres an endless list of alternatives

┄As ‘SupaMum’ pointed out a
few posts back we are not a
society of people who all
think and act the same, and
the removal of these products
on prescription at a time
when supermarket
alternatives are still far too
expensive for the majority of
people it will be devastating
to so many people’s lives of
all ages.”┄

Yep missing the point by miles, yes gluten free products are expensive but the supermarket shelves are full of naturally gluten free products
┄There are a lot of people here claiming to be a Coeliac but have very little understanding of the disease and the prescriptions currently available to them, which leads me to think some people are telling porky pies to try an legitimise their invalid point.┄ Why because some people with CD, say they manage fine without NHS support... ┄I am NOT a Coeliac but I know some people that are, I also know the difference between an intolerance and a disease┄ Well done! Now explain what the disease causes an intolerance to ┄and I have seen firsthand Coeliac children who would disagree with you and a few other supposed Coeliacs on here about your definition of “essential” when referring to flour, bread, pasta when you’re trying to fit into a society that cares very little about what crap people put in their body thanks to the ready meal society we sadly live in.┄ Someone with CD should stay away from wheat based foods, not expect the NHS to provide modified replacements... Are rice based products unavailable as well, or potatos hard to buy... Theres an endless list of alternatives ┄As ‘SupaMum’ pointed out a few posts back we are not a society of people who all think and act the same, and the removal of these products on prescription at a time when supermarket alternatives are still far too expensive for the majority of people it will be devastating to so many people’s lives of all ages.”┄ Yep missing the point by miles, yes gluten free products are expensive but the supermarket shelves are full of naturally gluten free products Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

5:02pm Sun 22 Jan 12

SupaMum says...

I feel some people would benefit from living a Coeliac lifestyle for a long period of time before they make such rash comments. And anyone who believes taking this prescription away from under 16yo is an absolute disgrace and seem to have forgotten what being a child is like, and how any difference can make you feel like a social pariah.
I feel some people would benefit from living a Coeliac lifestyle for a long period of time before they make such rash comments. And anyone who believes taking this prescription away from under 16yo is an absolute disgrace and seem to have forgotten what being a child is like, and how any difference can make you feel like a social pariah. SupaMum
  • Score: 0

5:51pm Sun 22 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

SM using a your robbing kids argument is pointless...
And childish...

There are many other food options available, and is getting kids used to eating altered versions of food they should avoid, wise anyway...
SM using a your robbing kids argument is pointless... And childish... There are many other food options available, and is getting kids used to eating altered versions of food they should avoid, wise anyway... Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

8:10pm Sun 22 Jan 12

Ians view says...

After reading ‘Dangerous Grains’ ‘Wheat Belly’ and other sources of information on food an nutrition, I feel lucky to have discovered the truth about gluten. Had my autoimmune system not responded by causing me such pain, I would still probably have been eating gluten today.

Socially, being excluded from the diet of the masses is problematic, but something I have learnt to deal with. It’s no good trying to hide the fact that we can’t eat certain foods.

When I was diagnosed, I did not believe that after so many years I could no longer consume many everyday foods and drink products. I sought out the rather expensive, gluten-free products. I’m a curious person, so I continued to read food product labels and about foods.

I thought it bizarre that vegetables were turned into pasta to have sauce poured over them, so I started to put pasta sauces over steamed vegetables. This saved me money and tasted much better than the vegetables that through a totally unnatural process had been turned into brittle shapes.

Is there any evidence that the same nutritional benefit gained from eating fresh vegetables, can be gained from vegetables that have been turned into pasta?

I started to look more closely at the ingredients of other gluten-free products that I like others was purchasing.

These ingredients frequently included: Rice flour, Potato Flour, Corn flour, millet flour, Potato Starch, Modified Tapioca Starch, Maize Starch, Maize Sugar, Vegetable Oil, Modified Potato Starch, Hydroxypropyl Methyl Cellulose, Locust Bean Gum, Guar Gum, Sodium Caseinate, Sugar, Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Carbonate, Modified Waxy Maize Starch, Tartaric Acid

When I start to investigate these ingredients, I find:

Tartaric acid - described as a muscle toxin and is linked to muscle damage.

Soy – linked to cancer and other health problems

Sodium Caseinate/Casein – linked to autism and cancer. Casein has a molecular structure quite similar to that of gluten.

Sodium carbonate - According to the MSDS, Sodium Carbonate could cause irritant to the skin, eyes, ingestion or lungs. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can result in organ damage.

Vegetable Oil – many nutritionists warn against its consumption.

Hydrogenated vegetable oil has been banned in two European countries

What is the effect of turning rice into flour? Many nutritionists warn against white rice (brown rice ok), so can our digestive system deal happily in the long-term with this man-created substance?

By inventing new food substances, are we creating new food intolerances for future generations? Do we really know better than nature?

With so many question marks against the ingredients in substitute foods to those including gluten should we not be a little concerned about them? Is adults seeing celiac children eating sandwiches like their gluten-tolerant school friends more important than their long-term health?

If someone can clear away all the questions marks, then perhaps the NHS should help families – even if this bill runs to millions of pounds. In Oxfordshire alone, the NHS bill for gluten-free substitute foods on prescription is about £350,000.

Whilst there is so much uncertainty, and links between the ingredients of gluten-free substitute foods and poor health, it seems reasonable that the NHS should not be providing these foods on prescription.

It would be better to make ready-meals, fast-foods and foods containing gluten less attractive and better labelling foods with gluten so that everyone reduces their consumption of gluten, potentially saving the NHS money as health improves. Many people are unaware of their gluten intolerance... many do not find out until they are adult’s in their 30’s or older.

I see no reason why any child needs to eat sandwiches at school or at home. We need to ensure that nutritionally beneficial meals based on meat, organs, eggs and vegetables are available at every school – and that parents have the skills to feed their children at home.
After reading ‘Dangerous Grains’ ‘Wheat Belly’ and other sources of information on food an nutrition, I feel lucky to have discovered the truth about gluten. Had my autoimmune system not responded by causing me such pain, I would still probably have been eating gluten today. Socially, being excluded from the diet of the masses is problematic, but something I have learnt to deal with. It’s no good trying to hide the fact that we can’t eat certain foods. When I was diagnosed, I did not believe that after so many years I could no longer consume many everyday foods and drink products. I sought out the rather expensive, gluten-free products. I’m a curious person, so I continued to read food product labels and about foods. I thought it bizarre that vegetables were turned into pasta to have sauce poured over them, so I started to put pasta sauces over steamed vegetables. This saved me money and tasted much better than the vegetables that through a totally unnatural process had been turned into brittle shapes. Is there any evidence that the same nutritional benefit gained from eating fresh vegetables, can be gained from vegetables that have been turned into pasta? I started to look more closely at the ingredients of other gluten-free products that I like others was purchasing. These ingredients frequently included: Rice flour, Potato Flour, Corn flour, millet flour, Potato Starch, Modified Tapioca Starch, Maize Starch, Maize Sugar, Vegetable Oil, Modified Potato Starch, Hydroxypropyl Methyl Cellulose, Locust Bean Gum, Guar Gum, Sodium Caseinate, Sugar, Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Carbonate, Modified Waxy Maize Starch, Tartaric Acid When I start to investigate these ingredients, I find: Tartaric acid - described as a muscle toxin and is linked to muscle damage. Soy – linked to cancer and other health problems Sodium Caseinate/Casein – linked to autism and cancer. Casein has a molecular structure quite similar to that of gluten. Sodium carbonate - According to the MSDS, Sodium Carbonate could cause irritant to the skin, eyes, ingestion or lungs. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can result in organ damage. Vegetable Oil – many nutritionists warn against its consumption. Hydrogenated vegetable oil has been banned in two European countries What is the effect of turning rice into flour? Many nutritionists warn against white rice (brown rice ok), so can our digestive system deal happily in the long-term with this man-created substance? By inventing new food substances, are we creating new food intolerances for future generations? Do we really know better than nature? With so many question marks against the ingredients in substitute foods to those including gluten should we not be a little concerned about them? Is adults seeing celiac children eating sandwiches like their gluten-tolerant school friends more important than their long-term health? If someone can clear away all the questions marks, then perhaps the NHS should help families – even if this bill runs to millions of pounds. In Oxfordshire alone, the NHS bill for gluten-free substitute foods on prescription is about £350,000. Whilst there is so much uncertainty, and links between the ingredients of gluten-free substitute foods and poor health, it seems reasonable that the NHS should not be providing these foods on prescription. It would be better to make ready-meals, fast-foods and foods containing gluten less attractive and better labelling foods with gluten so that everyone reduces their consumption of gluten, potentially saving the NHS money as health improves. Many people are unaware of their gluten intolerance... many do not find out until they are adult’s in their 30’s or older. I see no reason why any child needs to eat sandwiches at school or at home. We need to ensure that nutritionally beneficial meals based on meat, organs, eggs and vegetables are available at every school – and that parents have the skills to feed their children at home. Ians view
  • Score: 0

8:21pm Sun 22 Jan 12

SupaMum says...

Darkforbid wrote:
SM using a your robbing kids argument is pointless...
And childish...

There are many other food options available, and is getting kids used to eating altered versions of food they should avoid, wise anyway...
All children deserve a varied and healthy diet, I couldn’t agree more. But equally for a child’s social development they need to share and be part of many things people like you are brushing aside such as eating a pizza, being at a party and actually being able to eat a slice of cake, sharing in a biscuit, and having sandwiches in their lunch boxes even if their bread is homemade or prescription brought.
Make this difficult for parents or too expensive for parents and children will go without, will feel unfairly different, and potentially eat gluten products because they do not have the will power of an adult and then become extremely ill. So no my argument is not pointless or childish, it is based on hard evidence I have seen on over many years with a wide variety of children and their parents.
Just because someone has a Coeliac child doesn’t mean they will put that child’s nutritional value at the front of their priorities, and yes that is extremely wrong, but it is the world we sadly live in. You only have to look at the parents that took chip shop orders at the school gate that Jamie Oliver visited in protest at him trying to get their kids to eat healthier for the state of some parenting.
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: SM using a your robbing kids argument is pointless... And childish... There are many other food options available, and is getting kids used to eating altered versions of food they should avoid, wise anyway...[/p][/quote]All children deserve a varied and healthy diet, I couldn’t agree more. But equally for a child’s social development they need to share and be part of many things people like you are brushing aside such as eating a pizza, being at a party and actually being able to eat a slice of cake, sharing in a biscuit, and having sandwiches in their lunch boxes even if their bread is homemade or prescription brought. Make this difficult for parents or too expensive for parents and children will go without, will feel unfairly different, and potentially eat gluten products because they do not have the will power of an adult and then become extremely ill. So no my argument is not pointless or childish, it is based on hard evidence I have seen on over many years with a wide variety of children and their parents. Just because someone has a Coeliac child doesn’t mean they will put that child’s nutritional value at the front of their priorities, and yes that is extremely wrong, but it is the world we sadly live in. You only have to look at the parents that took chip shop orders at the school gate that Jamie Oliver visited in protest at him trying to get their kids to eat healthier for the state of some parenting. SupaMum
  • Score: 0

8:29pm Sun 22 Jan 12

SupaMum says...

Ians view you make some very good points, and I would not argue against many of them. However I do not feel the time is right at the moment to take these prescriptions away from people with Coeliac disease because not everyone or every family has such a positive attitude towards food.
I do disagree about Coeliac children having sandwiches at school etc for the reasons I have mentioned above, but I do agree if all children Coeliac or not had healthier varied diets it would be a better world and then id agree that sandwiches, cake, pizza and the other foods young children currently enjoy sharing were not so much a priority in a childs social development.
It’s all about balance, not just in their diets but also in their social development.
Ians view you make some very good points, and I would not argue against many of them. However I do not feel the time is right at the moment to take these prescriptions away from people with Coeliac disease because not everyone or every family has such a positive attitude towards food. I do disagree about Coeliac children having sandwiches at school etc for the reasons I have mentioned above, but I do agree if all children Coeliac or not had healthier varied diets it would be a better world and then id agree that sandwiches, cake, pizza and the other foods young children currently enjoy sharing were not so much a priority in a childs social development. It’s all about balance, not just in their diets but also in their social development. SupaMum
  • Score: 0

8:43pm Sun 22 Jan 12

Jackholly says...

Darkforbid wrote:
┄Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!┄

I'm not finding it cost more, so the NHS should pay, much of an argument...

Watch someone going through heroin withdrawal, and you might have some idea
Well id prefer my tax money being used to give these people food on prescription then to the drugie scum that choose to pump their veins with that stuff and then rob our houses to fund their dirty habbit!! Just so we can pay for the luxury of topping up their habit with methadone?? Shut them in a cell until they sweat it out and then give them counselling once they come round.
As for people like you on Job Seekers Allowance go get a job in a fast-food gaff or clean some toilets and stop sponging of us! You’re the worse sort of drain on our society. If you ask me anyone on JSA for more than 6 months shouldn’t be allowed a voice or the vote and should be doing community service every other day for every penny they get for sitting on their fat lazy rears.
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: ┄Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!┄ I'm not finding it cost more, so the NHS should pay, much of an argument... Watch someone going through heroin withdrawal, and you might have some idea[/p][/quote]Well id prefer my tax money being used to give these people food on prescription then to the drugie scum that choose to pump their veins with that stuff and then rob our houses to fund their dirty habbit!! Just so we can pay for the luxury of topping up their habit with methadone?? Shut them in a cell until they sweat it out and then give them counselling once they come round. As for people like you on Job Seekers Allowance go get a job in a fast-food gaff or clean some toilets and stop sponging of us! You’re the worse sort of drain on our society. If you ask me anyone on JSA for more than 6 months shouldn’t be allowed a voice or the vote and should be doing community service every other day for every penny they get for sitting on their fat lazy rears. Jackholly
  • Score: 0

9:59pm Sun 22 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

Same as the first post, aiming this at everyone or just me?

┄Well id prefer my tax money
being used to give these
people food on prescription
then to the drugie scum that
choose to pump their veins
with that stuff and then rob
our houses to fund their dirty
habbit!! Just so we can pay
for the luxury of topping up
their habit with methadone??


So would most addicts, its not sold to users like that, its meant to help you give up. If the Doctors were honest and said here have a second habit most would say no. Our houses?, I think you'll find most break-in artists have their own. Or are you just aiming this at homeless drug addicts?

┄Shut them in a cell until they sweat it out and then give them counselling once they
come round.┄

Society already does its called 'being arrested...

┄As for people like you on Job
Seekers Allowance go get a
job in a fast-food gaff or clean
some toilets and stop
sponging of us! You’re the
worse sort of drain on our society ┄

Yep that's why I don't
claim normally. If it makes you feel any better I can get max rate mental health but chose not too

┄If you ask me
anyone on JSA for more than
6 months shouldn’t be
allowed a voice or the vote
and should be doing
community service every
other day for every penny
they get for sitting on their fat
lazy rears.┄

See were do you get the ideas "sitting" "lazy" from do you stupidly think no job mean inactive lifestyle?

Don't you think it time your societies leaders, started generating more employment? Oh sorry no that's there to keep pay down

Well thanks for the advice, but if I really wanted some from a sure candidate for natural de-selection i'd ask...
Same as the first post, aiming this at everyone or just me? ┄Well id prefer my tax money being used to give these people food on prescription then to the drugie scum that choose to pump their veins with that stuff and then rob our houses to fund their dirty habbit!! Just so we can pay for the luxury of topping up their habit with methadone?? ┄ So would most addicts, its not sold to users like that, its meant to help you give up. If the Doctors were honest and said here have a second habit most would say no. Our houses?, I think you'll find most break-in artists have their own. Or are you just aiming this at homeless drug addicts? ┄Shut them in a cell until they sweat it out and then give them counselling once they come round.┄ Society already does its called 'being arrested... ┄As for people like you on Job Seekers Allowance go get a job in a fast-food gaff or clean some toilets and stop sponging of us! You’re the worse sort of drain on our society ┄ Yep that's why I don't claim normally. If it makes you feel any better I can get max rate mental health but chose not too ┄If you ask me anyone on JSA for more than 6 months shouldn’t be allowed a voice or the vote and should be doing community service every other day for every penny they get for sitting on their fat lazy rears.┄ See were do you get the ideas "sitting" "lazy" from do you stupidly think no job mean inactive lifestyle? Don't you think it time your societies leaders, started generating more employment? Oh sorry no that's there to keep pay down Well thanks for the advice, but if I really wanted some from a sure candidate for natural de-selection i'd ask... Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

10:02pm Sun 22 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

Same as the first post, aiming this at everyone or just me?

┄Well id prefer my tax money
being used to give these
people food on prescription
then to the drugie scum that
choose to pump their veins
with that stuff and then rob
our houses to fund their dirty
habbit!! Just so we can pay
for the luxury of topping up
their habit with methadone??


So would most addicts, its not sold to users like that, its meant to help you give up. If the Doctors were honest and said here have a second habit most would say no. Our houses?, I think you'll find most break-in artists have their own. Or are you just aiming this at homeless drug addicts?

┄Shut them in a cell until they sweat it out and then give them counselling once they
come round.┄

Society already does its called 'being arrested...

┄As for people like you on Job
Seekers Allowance go get a
job in a fast-food gaff or clean
some toilets and stop
sponging of us! You’re the
worse sort of drain on our society ┄

Yep that's why I don't
claim normally. If it makes you feel any better I can get max rate mental health but chose not too

┄If you ask me
anyone on JSA for more than
6 months shouldn’t be
allowed a voice or the vote
and should be doing
community service every
other day for every penny
they get for sitting on their fat
lazy rears.┄

See were do you get the ideas "sitting" "lazy" from do you stupidly think no job mean inactive lifestyle?

Don't you think it time your societies leaders, started generating more employment? Oh sorry no that's there to keep pay down

Well thanks for the advice, but if I really wanted some from a sure candidate for natural de-selection i'd ask...
Same as the first post, aiming this at everyone or just me? ┄Well id prefer my tax money being used to give these people food on prescription then to the drugie scum that choose to pump their veins with that stuff and then rob our houses to fund their dirty habbit!! Just so we can pay for the luxury of topping up their habit with methadone?? ┄ So would most addicts, its not sold to users like that, its meant to help you give up. If the Doctors were honest and said here have a second habit most would say no. Our houses?, I think you'll find most break-in artists have their own. Or are you just aiming this at homeless drug addicts? ┄Shut them in a cell until they sweat it out and then give them counselling once they come round.┄ Society already does its called 'being arrested... ┄As for people like you on Job Seekers Allowance go get a job in a fast-food gaff or clean some toilets and stop sponging of us! You’re the worse sort of drain on our society ┄ Yep that's why I don't claim normally. If it makes you feel any better I can get max rate mental health but chose not too ┄If you ask me anyone on JSA for more than 6 months shouldn’t be allowed a voice or the vote and should be doing community service every other day for every penny they get for sitting on their fat lazy rears.┄ See were do you get the ideas "sitting" "lazy" from do you stupidly think no job mean inactive lifestyle? Don't you think it time your societies leaders, started generating more employment? Oh sorry no that's there to keep pay down Well thanks for the advice, but if I really wanted some from a sure candidate for natural de-selection i'd ask... Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

9:01am Mon 23 Jan 12

Jackholly says...

Darkforbid - "So would most addicts, its not sold to users like that"
It's not sold at all. It's given away on prescription thanks to my generous tax money being wasted on all the human wasters of society.
Darkforbid - "are you just aiming this at homeless drug addicts?"
No all druggie scum bags, even the ones that live in their own soiled homes not looking after or caring for the home WE have put over their waste of a head while a nice genuine family sit on a waiting list hoping to get a chance of a home they take for granted.
Darkforbid - "Society already does its called 'being arrested..."
No it's called living in a country that is to lenient on scum, with a crap filled circle of events that doesn’t work.
Darkforbid - "If it makes you feel any better I can get max rate mental health but chose not too"
Well done for you, go take a biscuit on your way to the many minimum wage jobs available that require no intelligence but your lot seem to think you’re too good for. Give me hard working immigrants any day over spongers that think they are too good to work.
Darkforbid - "do you stupidly think no job mean inactive lifestyle?"
No worthwhile activity. No activity that gives back to the society that keeps giving to you. Volunteer for 5 days a week at many of the charities that NEED help and assistance, THEN maybe you are justifying your current lazy lifestyle, and who knows one of them might give you an actual job if you show enough passion.
Darkforbid - "Don't you think it time your societies leaders, started generating more employment?"
Absolutely. But not for your lot, because there are already enough jobs out there for people like you, you just have a chip on your shoulder like most of the JSA spongers about what is “beneath” them when it comes to work, when in reality by keep accepting unearned unwarranted tax payers money you are in effect no better than a beggar, so where you get this impression that you are anything other than the lowest of the low I have no idea...??!
I was made redundant last year, I got a job in two weeks behind a bar and then in 2 months through people I met in the bar I was working for an office cleaning company, and thankfully in November last year I could quit to take up a position that came available for a well known building firm doing labouring for which I am more comfortable with.
I’m only high school educated but I have a drive to work and not be a drain on society so I got a job, if you want them, you can get them, those that sit on JSA are just work shy and should have everything taken away from them until they learn the value of giving to society, instead of complaining about other people’s hard earned tax money being used to help people with an illness they were born with eat the basics we take for granted.
You’re the problem with society today, get a job, pay into our country and maybe the NHS will start to get enough money to pay for everyone’s treatment!
I'm off yo work now, that's WORK. bye :o)
Darkforbid - "So would most addicts, its not sold to users like that" It's not sold at all. It's given away on prescription thanks to my generous tax money being wasted on all the human wasters of society. Darkforbid - "are you just aiming this at homeless drug addicts?" No all druggie scum bags, even the ones that live in their own soiled homes not looking after or caring for the home WE have put over their waste of a head while a nice genuine family sit on a waiting list hoping to get a chance of a home they take for granted. Darkforbid - "Society already does its called 'being arrested..." No it's called living in a country that is to lenient on scum, with a crap filled circle of events that doesn’t work. Darkforbid - "If it makes you feel any better I can get max rate mental health but chose not too" Well done for you, go take a biscuit on your way to the many minimum wage jobs available that require no intelligence but your lot seem to think you’re too good for. Give me hard working immigrants any day over spongers that think they are too good to work. Darkforbid - "do you stupidly think no job mean inactive lifestyle?" No worthwhile activity. No activity that gives back to the society that keeps giving to you. Volunteer for 5 days a week at many of the charities that NEED help and assistance, THEN maybe you are justifying your current lazy lifestyle, and who knows one of them might give you an actual job if you show enough passion. Darkforbid - "Don't you think it time your societies leaders, started generating more employment?" Absolutely. But not for your lot, because there are already enough jobs out there for people like you, you just have a chip on your shoulder like most of the JSA spongers about what is “beneath” them when it comes to work, when in reality by keep accepting unearned unwarranted tax payers money you are in effect no better than a beggar, so where you get this impression that you are anything other than the lowest of the low I have no idea...??! I was made redundant last year, I got a job in two weeks behind a bar and then in 2 months through people I met in the bar I was working for an office cleaning company, and thankfully in November last year I could quit to take up a position that came available for a well known building firm doing labouring for which I am more comfortable with. I’m only high school educated but I have a drive to work and not be a drain on society so I got a job, if you want them, you can get them, those that sit on JSA are just work shy and should have everything taken away from them until they learn the value of giving to society, instead of complaining about other people’s hard earned tax money being used to help people with an illness they were born with eat the basics we take for granted. You’re the problem with society today, get a job, pay into our country and maybe the NHS will start to get enough money to pay for everyone’s treatment! I'm off yo work now, that's WORK. bye :o) Jackholly
  • Score: 0

8:50pm Mon 23 Jan 12

Severian says...

sam2973 wrote:
My 10 year old daughter has coeliac desease and has to have a gluten-free diet. This is not easy to follow, even the simple thing like a milkshake can contain gluten. The next time you go shopping just take a moment to look at the ingredients list and im sure you will be surprised to see just what the simple things contain. Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!!
I think this post says everything about what is wrong with the NHS. Drug addicts, smokers, alcoholics etc. can all have treatment for controllable problems that are their own fault, but coeliacs are being penalised to save money.
If the NHS want to save money they should stop treating smokers for lung problems, and refuse liver treatment to alcoholics.
[quote][p][bold]sam2973[/bold] wrote: My 10 year old daughter has coeliac desease and has to have a gluten-free diet. This is not easy to follow, even the simple thing like a milkshake can contain gluten. The next time you go shopping just take a moment to look at the ingredients list and im sure you will be surprised to see just what the simple things contain. Why should my daughter not have some help with her food when a drug addict can have methadone free !!!!!![/p][/quote]I think this post says everything about what is wrong with the NHS. Drug addicts, smokers, alcoholics etc. can all have treatment for controllable problems that are their own fault, but coeliacs are being penalised to save money. If the NHS want to save money they should stop treating smokers for lung problems, and refuse liver treatment to alcoholics. Severian
  • Score: 0

9:32pm Mon 23 Jan 12

listentoyourself says...

Jackholly: Harsh words, but have to agree with a lot of what you have said.

And on a lighter note, you have fallen on your feet with that job, only labouring job I know that allows you to leave for work at 9.01 am. Are you hoping to be in for the first tea break?
Jackholly: Harsh words, but have to agree with a lot of what you have said. And on a lighter note, you have fallen on your feet with that job, only labouring job I know that allows you to leave for work at 9.01 am. Are you hoping to be in for the first tea break? listentoyourself
  • Score: 0

9:44pm Mon 23 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

That's a great idea perhaps then we can stop paying the massive amount of tax on the above mentioned products, that is used to support the NHS for the people who don't drink or smoke...

Or maybe the woman your quoting can give her child something nutritious to eat like fruit, instead of empty bread based calories
That's a great idea perhaps then we can stop paying the massive amount of tax on the above mentioned products, that is used to support the NHS for the people who don't drink or smoke... Or maybe the woman your quoting can give her child something nutritious to eat like fruit, instead of empty bread based calories Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

11:27pm Mon 23 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

┄It's not sold at all. It's given
away on prescription thanks to my generous tax moneybeing wasted on all the human wasters of society.┄

That's not what I said. I said its sold as a replacement for heron, by that I mean sold by the drug companies as that, not the end users...

┄No all druggie scum bags,
even the ones that live in their
own soiled homes not looking
after or caring for the home
WE have put over their waste
of a head while a nice
genuine family sit on a
waiting list hoping to get a
chance of a home they take
for granted.┄

I would point out that there are drug users at all levels of society, but i'd hate to cloud your oh so clear view, and i'm sure the families you mention would love the single bed rooms given to ex-addicts

┄Well done for you, go take a
biscuit on your way to the
many minimum wage jobs
available that require no
intelligence but your lot seem
to think you’re too good for.
Give me hard working
immigrants any day over
spongers that think they are
too good to work┄

Yep what a sad view, unemployed think their too good for work, me personally i've done all types of work

┄No worthwhile activity. No
activity that gives back to the
society that keeps giving to
you. Volunteer for 5 days a
week at many of the charities
that NEED help and
assistance, THEN maybe
you are justifying your current
lazy lifestyle, and who knows
one of them might give you an
actual job if you show enough
passion┄

Already do the 16hours a week voluntarily i'm aloud to work on JSA thanks

Would volunteer to work with the homeless but being one, excludes me


┄Absolutely. But not for your
lot, because there are already
enough jobs out there for
people like you, you just have
a chip on your shoulder like
most of the JSA spongers
about what is “beneath”
them when it comes to work,
when in reality by keep
accepting unearned
unwarranted tax payers
money you are in effect no
better than a beggar, so
where you get this
impression that you are
anything other than the
lowest of the low I have no
idea...??!┄

Yep the homeless the lowest of the low, and you wonder why we don't find work when we're thought of like that... As it goes don't do much begging these days, but nice to know you think of people on the streets as sub-human scum

┄I was made redundant last
year, I got a job in two weeks
behind a bar and then in 2
months through people I met
in the bar I was working for an
office cleaning company, and
thankfully in November last
year I could quit to take up a
position that came available
for a well known building firm
doing labouring for which I am
more comfortable with.

I’m only high school
educated but I have a drive to
work and not be a drain on
society so I got a job, if you
want them, you can get them,
those that sit on JSA are just
work shy and should have
everything taken away from
them until they learn the
value of giving to society,
instead of complaining about
other people’s hard earned
tax money being used to help
people with an illness they
were born with eat the basics
we take for granted.
You’re the problem with
society today, get a job, pay
into our country and maybe
the NHS will start to get
enough money to pay for
everyone’s treatment!
I'm off yo work now, that's
WORK. bye :o)┄

So basically you got a job so everyone out of work is work-shy

Nice, did you have employment problems like police records, no housing, massive debt, transport problems...

Anyway back to the subject this NHS gluten free food is nutritionally a poor form of diet... An some people have the health of the people on it in mind... Not just "my tax money"
┄It's not sold at all. It's given away on prescription thanks to my generous tax moneybeing wasted on all the human wasters of society.┄ That's not what I said. I said its sold as a replacement for heron, by that I mean sold by the drug companies as that, not the end users... ┄No all druggie scum bags, even the ones that live in their own soiled homes not looking after or caring for the home WE have put over their waste of a head while a nice genuine family sit on a waiting list hoping to get a chance of a home they take for granted.┄ I would point out that there are drug users at all levels of society, but i'd hate to cloud your oh so clear view, and i'm sure the families you mention would love the single bed rooms given to ex-addicts ┄Well done for you, go take a biscuit on your way to the many minimum wage jobs available that require no intelligence but your lot seem to think you’re too good for. Give me hard working immigrants any day over spongers that think they are too good to work┄ Yep what a sad view, unemployed think their too good for work, me personally i've done all types of work ┄No worthwhile activity. No activity that gives back to the society that keeps giving to you. Volunteer for 5 days a week at many of the charities that NEED help and assistance, THEN maybe you are justifying your current lazy lifestyle, and who knows one of them might give you an actual job if you show enough passion┄ Already do the 16hours a week voluntarily i'm aloud to work on JSA thanks Would volunteer to work with the homeless but being one, excludes me ┄Absolutely. But not for your lot, because there are already enough jobs out there for people like you, you just have a chip on your shoulder like most of the JSA spongers about what is “beneath” them when it comes to work, when in reality by keep accepting unearned unwarranted tax payers money you are in effect no better than a beggar, so where you get this impression that you are anything other than the lowest of the low I have no idea...??!┄ Yep the homeless the lowest of the low, and you wonder why we don't find work when we're thought of like that... As it goes don't do much begging these days, but nice to know you think of people on the streets as sub-human scum ┄I was made redundant last year, I got a job in two weeks behind a bar and then in 2 months through people I met in the bar I was working for an office cleaning company, and thankfully in November last year I could quit to take up a position that came available for a well known building firm doing labouring for which I am more comfortable with. I’m only high school educated but I have a drive to work and not be a drain on society so I got a job, if you want them, you can get them, those that sit on JSA are just work shy and should have everything taken away from them until they learn the value of giving to society, instead of complaining about other people’s hard earned tax money being used to help people with an illness they were born with eat the basics we take for granted. You’re the problem with society today, get a job, pay into our country and maybe the NHS will start to get enough money to pay for everyone’s treatment! I'm off yo work now, that's WORK. bye :o)┄ So basically you got a job so everyone out of work is work-shy Nice, did you have employment problems like police records, no housing, massive debt, transport problems... Anyway back to the subject this NHS gluten free food is nutritionally a poor form of diet... An some people have the health of the people on it in mind... Not just "my tax money" Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

8:31am Tue 24 Jan 12

Jackholly says...

listentoyourself wrote:
Jackholly: Harsh words, but have to agree with a lot of what you have said.

And on a lighter note, you have fallen on your feet with that job, only labouring job I know that allows you to leave for work at 9.01 am. Are you hoping to be in for the first tea break?
Not really it’s actually a pain as we start, then have to stop for the other workers who aren’t on site and then restart, so it’s a late finish. But it does give me the time to connect and see what our local JSA moaner is dribbling
[quote][p][bold]listentoyourself[/bold] wrote: Jackholly: Harsh words, but have to agree with a lot of what you have said. And on a lighter note, you have fallen on your feet with that job, only labouring job I know that allows you to leave for work at 9.01 am. Are you hoping to be in for the first tea break?[/p][/quote]Not really it’s actually a pain as we start, then have to stop for the other workers who aren’t on site and then restart, so it’s a late finish. But it does give me the time to connect and see what our local JSA moaner is dribbling Jackholly
  • Score: 0

8:32am Tue 24 Jan 12

Jackholly says...

Darkforbid wrote:
That's a great idea perhaps then we can stop paying the massive amount of tax on the above mentioned products, that is used to support the NHS for the people who don't drink or smoke...

Or maybe the woman your quoting can give her child something nutritious to eat like fruit, instead of empty bread based calories
Maybe you could get a job?
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: That's a great idea perhaps then we can stop paying the massive amount of tax on the above mentioned products, that is used to support the NHS for the people who don't drink or smoke... Or maybe the woman your quoting can give her child something nutritious to eat like fruit, instead of empty bread based calories[/p][/quote]Maybe you could get a job? Jackholly
  • Score: 0

8:50am Tue 24 Jan 12

Jackholly says...

"Darkforbid - i'm sure the families you mention would love the single bed rooms given to ex-addicts"
Maybe not families, but maybe if they weren’t gifted that room it could go to the many single people stuck at home with mum & dad because the cost to buy or rent is so high. Id rather them have a room to experience life then druggie wasters.

"Darkforbid - Yep what a sad view, unemployed think their too good for work, me personally i've done all types of work"
Then start doing some more, it’s not difficult you just walk from place to place asking “have you got any jobs please” and if you’re lucky a few might, and then who knows? You might actually get one SHOCK HORROR

"Darkforbid - Would volunteer to work with the homeless but being one, excludes me"
Then just do it, you don’t need a letter from your mummy to help someone. By actually DOING rather than moaning you might get noticed.

"Darkforbid - nice to know you think of people on the streets as sub-human scum"
Not SUB human, lazy scum maybe haha. No I don’t think that, in fact depending on how they got there I am normally understanding. BUT when someone claims to be one (despite the fact they seem to be online so often) starts dribbling off nonsense that could dramatically impact people’s lives it gets my back up, sort your life out first and start contributing again. THEN come and try and change the world so people don’t see sandwiches as a staple part of lunch.....

"Darkforbid - So basically you got a job so everyone out of work is work-shy, Nice”
No, depending on your age getting a job after redundancy is tough. BUT work is out there it just isn’t glamorous and people pick and choose to much while they moan about the lack of work.

"Darkforbid - did you have employment problems like police records, no housing, massive debt, transport problems..."
No, the only problem I have had with employment is when its ended, so the resolution to that problem is getting another job, so if I get made redundant again your see me serving a pint, or a big mac, or sweeping the streets, or cleaning the toilets because I won’t sit around crying about it or thinking I’m special, I will get off my rear and get a JOB!
If you have a police record, debt, and lack of a car that’s your problem don’t blame society for your own mistakes.
Police – Don’t break the law. Simples
Debt – Don’t spend more then you are bringing in. Simples
No car – Get a bike or better yet WALK. You keep going on about people’s health, have a nice walk to a JOB
"Darkforbid - i'm sure the families you mention would love the single bed rooms given to ex-addicts" Maybe not families, but maybe if they weren’t gifted that room it could go to the many single people stuck at home with mum & dad because the cost to buy or rent is so high. Id rather them have a room to experience life then druggie wasters. "Darkforbid - Yep what a sad view, unemployed think their too good for work, me personally i've done all types of work" Then start doing some more, it’s not difficult you just walk from place to place asking “have you got any jobs please” and if you’re lucky a few might, and then who knows? You might actually get one SHOCK HORROR "Darkforbid - Would volunteer to work with the homeless but being one, excludes me" Then just do it, you don’t need a letter from your mummy to help someone. By actually DOING rather than moaning you might get noticed. "Darkforbid - nice to know you think of people on the streets as sub-human scum" Not SUB human, lazy scum maybe haha. No I don’t think that, in fact depending on how they got there I am normally understanding. BUT when someone claims to be one (despite the fact they seem to be online so often) starts dribbling off nonsense that could dramatically impact people’s lives it gets my back up, sort your life out first and start contributing again. THEN come and try and change the world so people don’t see sandwiches as a staple part of lunch..... "Darkforbid - So basically you got a job so everyone out of work is work-shy, Nice” No, depending on your age getting a job after redundancy is tough. BUT work is out there it just isn’t glamorous and people pick and choose to much while they moan about the lack of work. "Darkforbid - did you have employment problems like police records, no housing, massive debt, transport problems..." No, the only problem I have had with employment is when its ended, so the resolution to that problem is getting another job, so if I get made redundant again your see me serving a pint, or a big mac, or sweeping the streets, or cleaning the toilets because I won’t sit around crying about it or thinking I’m special, I will get off my rear and get a JOB! If you have a police record, debt, and lack of a car that’s your problem don’t blame society for your own mistakes. Police – Don’t break the law. Simples Debt – Don’t spend more then you are bringing in. Simples No car – Get a bike or better yet WALK. You keep going on about people’s health, have a nice walk to a JOB Jackholly
  • Score: 0

8:58am Tue 24 Jan 12

SwampieUK says...

I can't believe the lack of sensitivity, the intolerance (love the irony!) and aggressive attitude in some of the comments on here. Personal attacks on people's situations are unnecessary, even if you disagree with their opinions.

"Give fruit instead of empty calories bread" - why does having bread exclude people also having fruit? A balanced diet is one which is varied.

A number of people have suggested what coeliacs really need is a dietician and the reason they rely on bread, pasta and other is because they're uninformed.

My wife (a nurse) has been advised by a dietician. Her advice included the need to eat more calories than usually recommended due to the weight loss she suffered before her diagnosis. She suggested bread, pasta and savoury crackers (among other things) as good ways to bulk out meals, and to increase calorie intake. It is not uncommon for coeliacs to be underweight, even after diagnosis (my wife has put on weight, but is still technically classed as underweight).

A friend of ours from university is a dietician in a hospital and deals with coeliacs on a daily basis. My wife and her will often talk about gluten free meals, recipies and suggestions, with my wife often being told the latest peer reviewed advice from journals etc.

So to suggest that my wife eats bread and pasta just because she's uninformed is completely wrong.

We cook from scratch most of the hot meals we eat, and when doing so, it's pretty easy to eat gluten free. So please don't suggest that the reason my wife eats bread and pasta is because she's lazy and can't be bothered to cook.

And to suggest that we can just buy the items we get on prescription via the internet isn't always correct. Some things you can get, e.g. the flour she used to get for bread baking etc - however at £8 for 500g, it's just not affordable for us. However, we do order them when we need to bake a birthday cake, as no other bread we've tried comes close to getting anything like the same success. And please, don't start saying that coeliacs shouldn't have a birthday cake! Yes, we understand balanced diets etc - but treats like these are just that - treats!

Similarly, the fresh bread she gets isn't available off prescription. From what I've seen of the bread, the difference between the shop bought, and the prescription bread is like comparing normal bread to a cheap bath sponge, although I have to admit, the prescription bread still is nowhere near as good as normal (gluten) bread.

Now, make all the prescription items we have/had available at reasonable/comparabl
e prices to normal food, and we'd be happy. The trouble is, often they cost more because they cost more to make. Economies of scale affect it etc.

Someone suggested that the NHS should subsidise these gluten-free items in shops to make them more affordable - I disagree with that because, as currently stands, to get prescriptions for coeliac disease you need to have been properly diagnosed (including an endoscopy). I know many people who have cut out gluten without being diagnosed - and I think it's wrong for the NHS to spend money subsidising products for people who haven't been properly diagnosed. The benefit of the prescription system is that a doctor has to agree to each one. I have heard of doctors overriding the PCT managers who restricted certain items simply because it was in the patient's best interest to have certain items prescribed.

I say, leave it to the doctors who know the patient and their situation, can give advice and tailor the treatment and prescription to what they see as being best for the patient - not what some faceless NHS/PCT manager has decided would help them hit their cost reduction target for the year. Get the manager to eat, cook, bake and eat out gluten-free for a couple of months and see how they find it. I wouldn't be surprised if the menu at a PCT meeting/event which included food/buffet would change if they did - in the very few occasions my wife attended a PCT event which included food, my wife never found any items that were definitely GF (it's actually the drug reps who usually go the extra mile for them and pop to Tesco on the way!). Having someone take the effort to have included something GF for you really encourages you.

And finally, I believe saying "NHS gluten free food is nutritionally a poor form of diet" is quite wrong. Either that, or the British Dietetic Association and the Primary Care Society for Gastroenterology who helped come up with the UK prescribing guidelines for coeliac disease are badly educated.

The PCTs (effectively the managers) are saying they know best over these highly respected and experienced organisations. Trust the experts, not the bean counters. And I trust those organisations far more than unknown people on here giving quick comments suggesting coeliacs shouldn't eat bread or pasta etc.
I can't believe the lack of sensitivity, the intolerance (love the irony!) and aggressive attitude in some of the comments on here. Personal attacks on people's situations are unnecessary, even if you disagree with their opinions. "Give fruit instead of empty calories bread" - why does having bread exclude people also having fruit? A balanced diet is one which is varied. A number of people have suggested what coeliacs really need is a dietician and the reason they rely on bread, pasta and other is because they're uninformed. My wife (a nurse) has been advised by a dietician. Her advice included the need to eat more calories than usually recommended due to the weight loss she suffered before her diagnosis. She suggested bread, pasta and savoury crackers (among other things) as good ways to bulk out meals, and to increase calorie intake. It is not uncommon for coeliacs to be underweight, even after diagnosis (my wife has put on weight, but is still technically classed as underweight). A friend of ours from university is a dietician in a hospital and deals with coeliacs on a daily basis. My wife and her will often talk about gluten free meals, recipies and suggestions, with my wife often being told the latest peer reviewed advice from journals etc. So to suggest that my wife eats bread and pasta just because she's uninformed is completely wrong. We cook from scratch most of the hot meals we eat, and when doing so, it's pretty easy to eat gluten free. So please don't suggest that the reason my wife eats bread and pasta is because she's lazy and can't be bothered to cook. And to suggest that we can just buy the items we get on prescription via the internet isn't always correct. Some things you can get, e.g. the flour she used to get for bread baking etc - however at £8 for 500g, it's just not affordable for us. However, we do order them when we need to bake a birthday cake, as no other bread we've tried comes close to getting anything like the same success. And please, don't start saying that coeliacs shouldn't have a birthday cake! Yes, we understand balanced diets etc - but treats like these are just that - treats! Similarly, the fresh bread she gets isn't available off prescription. From what I've seen of the bread, the difference between the shop bought, and the prescription bread is like comparing normal bread to a cheap bath sponge, although I have to admit, the prescription bread still is nowhere near as good as normal (gluten) bread. Now, make all the prescription items we have/had available at reasonable/comparabl e prices to normal food, and we'd be happy. The trouble is, often they cost more because they cost more to make. Economies of scale affect it etc. Someone suggested that the NHS should subsidise these gluten-free items in shops to make them more affordable - I disagree with that because, as currently stands, to get prescriptions for coeliac disease you need to have been properly diagnosed (including an endoscopy). I know many people who have cut out gluten without being diagnosed - and I think it's wrong for the NHS to spend money subsidising products for people who haven't been properly diagnosed. The benefit of the prescription system is that a doctor has to agree to each one. I have heard of doctors overriding the PCT managers who restricted certain items simply because it was in the patient's best interest to have certain items prescribed. I say, leave it to the doctors who know the patient and their situation, can give advice and tailor the treatment and prescription to what they see as being best for the patient - not what some faceless NHS/PCT manager has decided would help them hit their cost reduction target for the year. Get the manager to eat, cook, bake and eat out gluten-free for a couple of months and see how they find it. I wouldn't be surprised if the menu at a PCT meeting/event which included food/buffet would change if they did - in the very few occasions my wife attended a PCT event which included food, my wife never found any items that were definitely GF (it's actually the drug reps who usually go the extra mile for them and pop to Tesco on the way!). Having someone take the effort to have included something GF for you really encourages you. And finally, I believe saying "NHS gluten free food is nutritionally a poor form of diet" is quite wrong. Either that, or the British Dietetic Association and the Primary Care Society for Gastroenterology who helped come up with the UK prescribing guidelines for coeliac disease are badly educated. The PCTs (effectively the managers) are saying they know best over these highly respected and experienced organisations. Trust the experts, not the bean counters. And I trust those organisations far more than unknown people on here giving quick comments suggesting coeliacs shouldn't eat bread or pasta etc. SwampieUK
  • Score: 0

9:13am Tue 24 Jan 12

Little-more then a legend says...

Awful to think they are considering this, I hope this gets rejected and common sense used.
Awful to think they are considering this, I hope this gets rejected and common sense used. Little-more then a legend
  • Score: 0

9:20am Tue 24 Jan 12

BrianAdams says...

SwampieUK wrote:
I can't believe the lack of sensitivity, the intolerance (love the irony!) and aggressive attitude in some of the comments on here. Personal attacks on people's situations are unnecessary, even if you disagree with their opinions.

"Give fruit instead of empty calories bread" - why does having bread exclude people also having fruit? A balanced diet is one which is varied.

A number of people have suggested what coeliacs really need is a dietician and the reason they rely on bread, pasta and other is because they're uninformed.

My wife (a nurse) has been advised by a dietician. Her advice included the need to eat more calories than usually recommended due to the weight loss she suffered before her diagnosis. She suggested bread, pasta and savoury crackers (among other things) as good ways to bulk out meals, and to increase calorie intake. It is not uncommon for coeliacs to be underweight, even after diagnosis (my wife has put on weight, but is still technically classed as underweight).

A friend of ours from university is a dietician in a hospital and deals with coeliacs on a daily basis. My wife and her will often talk about gluten free meals, recipies and suggestions, with my wife often being told the latest peer reviewed advice from journals etc.

So to suggest that my wife eats bread and pasta just because she's uninformed is completely wrong.

We cook from scratch most of the hot meals we eat, and when doing so, it's pretty easy to eat gluten free. So please don't suggest that the reason my wife eats bread and pasta is because she's lazy and can't be bothered to cook.

And to suggest that we can just buy the items we get on prescription via the internet isn't always correct. Some things you can get, e.g. the flour she used to get for bread baking etc - however at £8 for 500g, it's just not affordable for us. However, we do order them when we need to bake a birthday cake, as no other bread we've tried comes close to getting anything like the same success. And please, don't start saying that coeliacs shouldn't have a birthday cake! Yes, we understand balanced diets etc - but treats like these are just that - treats!

Similarly, the fresh bread she gets isn't available off prescription. From what I've seen of the bread, the difference between the shop bought, and the prescription bread is like comparing normal bread to a cheap bath sponge, although I have to admit, the prescription bread still is nowhere near as good as normal (gluten) bread.

Now, make all the prescription items we have/had available at reasonable/comparabl

e prices to normal food, and we'd be happy. The trouble is, often they cost more because they cost more to make. Economies of scale affect it etc.

Someone suggested that the NHS should subsidise these gluten-free items in shops to make them more affordable - I disagree with that because, as currently stands, to get prescriptions for coeliac disease you need to have been properly diagnosed (including an endoscopy). I know many people who have cut out gluten without being diagnosed - and I think it's wrong for the NHS to spend money subsidising products for people who haven't been properly diagnosed. The benefit of the prescription system is that a doctor has to agree to each one. I have heard of doctors overriding the PCT managers who restricted certain items simply because it was in the patient's best interest to have certain items prescribed.

I say, leave it to the doctors who know the patient and their situation, can give advice and tailor the treatment and prescription to what they see as being best for the patient - not what some faceless NHS/PCT manager has decided would help them hit their cost reduction target for the year. Get the manager to eat, cook, bake and eat out gluten-free for a couple of months and see how they find it. I wouldn't be surprised if the menu at a PCT meeting/event which included food/buffet would change if they did - in the very few occasions my wife attended a PCT event which included food, my wife never found any items that were definitely GF (it's actually the drug reps who usually go the extra mile for them and pop to Tesco on the way!). Having someone take the effort to have included something GF for you really encourages you.

And finally, I believe saying "NHS gluten free food is nutritionally a poor form of diet" is quite wrong. Either that, or the British Dietetic Association and the Primary Care Society for Gastroenterology who helped come up with the UK prescribing guidelines for coeliac disease are badly educated.

The PCTs (effectively the managers) are saying they know best over these highly respected and experienced organisations. Trust the experts, not the bean counters. And I trust those organisations far more than unknown people on here giving quick comments suggesting coeliacs shouldn't eat bread or pasta etc.
Hi SwampieUK, I am meeting with the Communications and Engagement Co-ordinator for the NHS Buckinghamshire & Oxfordshire on Monday the 30th regarding this issue because if it goes ahead it will have a big impact on my family as my wife and youngest son were both born Coeliacs. You have made some really important points that I would like to share with the Co-ordinator if you are happy for me to do so?
[quote][p][bold]SwampieUK[/bold] wrote: I can't believe the lack of sensitivity, the intolerance (love the irony!) and aggressive attitude in some of the comments on here. Personal attacks on people's situations are unnecessary, even if you disagree with their opinions. "Give fruit instead of empty calories bread" - why does having bread exclude people also having fruit? A balanced diet is one which is varied. A number of people have suggested what coeliacs really need is a dietician and the reason they rely on bread, pasta and other is because they're uninformed. My wife (a nurse) has been advised by a dietician. Her advice included the need to eat more calories than usually recommended due to the weight loss she suffered before her diagnosis. She suggested bread, pasta and savoury crackers (among other things) as good ways to bulk out meals, and to increase calorie intake. It is not uncommon for coeliacs to be underweight, even after diagnosis (my wife has put on weight, but is still technically classed as underweight). A friend of ours from university is a dietician in a hospital and deals with coeliacs on a daily basis. My wife and her will often talk about gluten free meals, recipies and suggestions, with my wife often being told the latest peer reviewed advice from journals etc. So to suggest that my wife eats bread and pasta just because she's uninformed is completely wrong. We cook from scratch most of the hot meals we eat, and when doing so, it's pretty easy to eat gluten free. So please don't suggest that the reason my wife eats bread and pasta is because she's lazy and can't be bothered to cook. And to suggest that we can just buy the items we get on prescription via the internet isn't always correct. Some things you can get, e.g. the flour she used to get for bread baking etc - however at £8 for 500g, it's just not affordable for us. However, we do order them when we need to bake a birthday cake, as no other bread we've tried comes close to getting anything like the same success. And please, don't start saying that coeliacs shouldn't have a birthday cake! Yes, we understand balanced diets etc - but treats like these are just that - treats! Similarly, the fresh bread she gets isn't available off prescription. From what I've seen of the bread, the difference between the shop bought, and the prescription bread is like comparing normal bread to a cheap bath sponge, although I have to admit, the prescription bread still is nowhere near as good as normal (gluten) bread. Now, make all the prescription items we have/had available at reasonable/comparabl e prices to normal food, and we'd be happy. The trouble is, often they cost more because they cost more to make. Economies of scale affect it etc. Someone suggested that the NHS should subsidise these gluten-free items in shops to make them more affordable - I disagree with that because, as currently stands, to get prescriptions for coeliac disease you need to have been properly diagnosed (including an endoscopy). I know many people who have cut out gluten without being diagnosed - and I think it's wrong for the NHS to spend money subsidising products for people who haven't been properly diagnosed. The benefit of the prescription system is that a doctor has to agree to each one. I have heard of doctors overriding the PCT managers who restricted certain items simply because it was in the patient's best interest to have certain items prescribed. I say, leave it to the doctors who know the patient and their situation, can give advice and tailor the treatment and prescription to what they see as being best for the patient - not what some faceless NHS/PCT manager has decided would help them hit their cost reduction target for the year. Get the manager to eat, cook, bake and eat out gluten-free for a couple of months and see how they find it. I wouldn't be surprised if the menu at a PCT meeting/event which included food/buffet would change if they did - in the very few occasions my wife attended a PCT event which included food, my wife never found any items that were definitely GF (it's actually the drug reps who usually go the extra mile for them and pop to Tesco on the way!). Having someone take the effort to have included something GF for you really encourages you. And finally, I believe saying "NHS gluten free food is nutritionally a poor form of diet" is quite wrong. Either that, or the British Dietetic Association and the Primary Care Society for Gastroenterology who helped come up with the UK prescribing guidelines for coeliac disease are badly educated. The PCTs (effectively the managers) are saying they know best over these highly respected and experienced organisations. Trust the experts, not the bean counters. And I trust those organisations far more than unknown people on here giving quick comments suggesting coeliacs shouldn't eat bread or pasta etc.[/p][/quote]Hi SwampieUK, I am meeting with the Communications and Engagement Co-ordinator for the NHS Buckinghamshire & Oxfordshire on Monday the 30th regarding this issue because if it goes ahead it will have a big impact on my family as my wife and youngest son were both born Coeliacs. You have made some really important points that I would like to share with the Co-ordinator if you are happy for me to do so? BrianAdams
  • Score: 0

10:36am Tue 24 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

┄Not SUB human, lazy scum
maybe haha. No I don’t think
that, in fact depending on how
they got there I am normally
understanding. BUT when
someone claims to be one
(despite the fact they seem
to be online so often) starts
dribbling off nonsense that
could dramatically impact
people’s lives it gets my back
up, sort your life out first and
start contributing again.
THEN come and try and
change the world so people
don’t see sandwiches as a
staple part of lunch.....

Yep your so understanding, as your posts show... Do you have anything to say about the subject,,,... No didn't think so

Anyway back on subject, lots of people in the UK follow a gluten free diet for heath reasons, its not just people with CD... Many of them are on benefits, they just follow a gluten free diet because its thought to be a healthy diet, none of them moan about it being unaffordable in fact many claim its a cheaper healthy diet...

In fact the only ones objecting seem to be those who, get reduced rate or free food from the good old NHS

I've not seen a real point made in all these posts about why this NHS help should continue, all the argument miss the fact that there are other forms of calories out there... Which are allot cheaper than modified wheat
┄Not SUB human, lazy scum maybe haha. No I don’t think that, in fact depending on how they got there I am normally understanding. BUT when someone claims to be one (despite the fact they seem to be online so often) starts dribbling off nonsense that could dramatically impact people’s lives it gets my back up, sort your life out first and start contributing again. THEN come and try and change the world so people don’t see sandwiches as a staple part of lunch..... Yep your so understanding, as your posts show... Do you have anything to say about the subject,,,... No didn't think so Anyway back on subject, lots of people in the UK follow a gluten free diet for heath reasons, its not just people with CD... Many of them are on benefits, they just follow a gluten free diet because its thought to be a healthy diet, none of them moan about it being unaffordable in fact many claim its a cheaper healthy diet... In fact the only ones objecting seem to be those who, get reduced rate or free food from the good old NHS I've not seen a real point made in all these posts about why this NHS help should continue, all the argument miss the fact that there are other forms of calories out there... Which are allot cheaper than modified wheat Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Tue 24 Jan 12

SupaMum says...

Darkforbid I wish I get you to come and volunteer alongside me so you could meet some of the children that this will impact, meet the parents that won’t make the alternatives for their children rightly or wrongly, and then you might have a different opinion on why it is not a bad thing to allow children/people with this disease the right to products that helps them fit into society rather than be made to feel different and odd to all those around them, and how damaging it can be when parents do not follow the strict guidelines because of finances (again I KNOW it’s wrong, but it is still happening).
On occasions when I sense a real indifference from parents an old friend of mine will do a visit with me who is in a wheel chair due to Osteoporosis a symptom that is common for people who ignore the dietary advice as his parents did, which resulted in him having a carless attitude and flaunting it also when he drank as a teenager.
I really get upset by your comments on here because I see firsthand the problems which will only get worse if prescriptions are removed, and your nonchalant attitude to something you clearly have limited understanding of is damaging to the debate.
Darkforbid I wish I get you to come and volunteer alongside me so you could meet some of the children that this will impact, meet the parents that won’t make the alternatives for their children rightly or wrongly, and then you might have a different opinion on why it is not a bad thing to allow children/people with this disease the right to products that helps them fit into society rather than be made to feel different and odd to all those around them, and how damaging it can be when parents do not follow the strict guidelines because of finances (again I KNOW it’s wrong, but it is still happening). On occasions when I sense a real indifference from parents an old friend of mine will do a visit with me who is in a wheel chair due to Osteoporosis a symptom that is common for people who ignore the dietary advice as his parents did, which resulted in him having a carless attitude and flaunting it also when he drank as a teenager. I really get upset by your comments on here because I see firsthand the problems which will only get worse if prescriptions are removed, and your nonchalant attitude to something you clearly have limited understanding of is damaging to the debate. SupaMum
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Tue 24 Jan 12

BrianAdams says...

If you are against this move, please sign this petition to stop the NHS removing gluten-free prescriptions for Coeliacs:
http://epetitions.di
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/27968
If you are against this move, please sign this petition to stop the NHS removing gluten-free prescriptions for Coeliacs: http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/27968 BrianAdams
  • Score: 0

2:56pm Tue 24 Jan 12

listentoyourself says...

SupaMum, you keep talking about fitting in to society rather than made to feel different, and having a right to products that helps them fit in with society. Being different because they cannot eat as others do does not make them an outcast, you refer to it like you look after a leper colony. When it comes to kids parties etc they WILL feel different, but no more so than the children with many other conditions.

And may I suggest that regarding the parents who you keep mentioning that "won't make the alternatives for their children" and "do not stick to the strict guidelines", you spend your time educating them, and in fact explain how life threatening this disease is if they do not stick to the guidelines.

Because if my children could be seriously ill by me not sticking to guidelines, I know for a fact money would be irrelevant when it comes to their health.
SupaMum, you keep talking about fitting in to society rather than made to feel different, and having a right to products that helps them fit in with society. Being different because they cannot eat as others do does not make them an outcast, you refer to it like you look after a leper colony. When it comes to kids parties etc they WILL feel different, but no more so than the children with many other conditions. And may I suggest that regarding the parents who you keep mentioning that "won't make the alternatives for their children" and "do not stick to the strict guidelines", you spend your time educating them, and in fact explain how life threatening this disease is if they do not stick to the guidelines. Because if my children could be seriously ill by me not sticking to guidelines, I know for a fact money would be irrelevant when it comes to their health. listentoyourself
  • Score: 0

4:10pm Tue 24 Jan 12

SupaMum says...

"listentoyourself When it comes to kids parties etc they WILL feel different, but no more so than the children with many other conditions."

So as long as there are other people missing out it and struggling to fit into main stream society it is ok to add another group people to the list? you can reduce the difference they feel if alternative options are cheap enough for people to feel bothered to use. Where possible everyone has the right to be a sheep or to stand out from the crowd if that is their preference.

"listentoyourself spend your time educating them, and in fact explain how life threatening this disease is if they do not stick to the guidelines. Because if my children could be seriously ill by me not sticking to guidelines, I know for a fact money would be irrelevant when it comes to their health."

I do, that is one of core responsibilities of my role, and I am glad to hear money would be irrelevant if you were in there situation, but sadly that isn’t always the case whether you like that fact or not.
"listentoyourself When it comes to kids parties etc they WILL feel different, but no more so than the children with many other conditions." So as long as there are other people missing out it and struggling to fit into main stream society it is ok to add another group people to the list? you can reduce the difference they feel if alternative options are cheap enough for people to feel bothered to use. Where possible everyone has the right to be a sheep or to stand out from the crowd if that is their preference. "listentoyourself spend your time educating them, and in fact explain how life threatening this disease is if they do not stick to the guidelines. Because if my children could be seriously ill by me not sticking to guidelines, I know for a fact money would be irrelevant when it comes to their health." I do, that is one of core responsibilities of my role, and I am glad to hear money would be irrelevant if you were in there situation, but sadly that isn’t always the case whether you like that fact or not. SupaMum
  • Score: 0

4:30pm Tue 24 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

So basically SM, saying that some kids are already suffer from lack of care of their illness...

And that's with the scripts.

My point would be without the scripts, parents will have to learn proper CD management instead of relying on NHS foods

But then why bother you like most of the against the 'ban' posters, only seem to be able to see gluten free products... Not the vast range of other food options
So basically SM, saying that some kids are already suffer from lack of care of their illness... And that's with the scripts. My point would be without the scripts, parents will have to learn proper CD management instead of relying on NHS foods But then why bother you like most of the against the 'ban' posters, only seem to be able to see gluten free products... Not the vast range of other food options Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

4:32pm Tue 24 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

So basically SM, saying that some kids are already suffer from lack of care of their illness...

And that's with the scripts.

My point would be without the scripts, parents will have to learn proper CD management instead of relying on NHS foods

But then why bother you like most of the against the 'ban' posters, only seem to be able to see gluten free products... Not the vast range of other food options
So basically SM, saying that some kids are already suffer from lack of care of their illness... And that's with the scripts. My point would be without the scripts, parents will have to learn proper CD management instead of relying on NHS foods But then why bother you like most of the against the 'ban' posters, only seem to be able to see gluten free products... Not the vast range of other food options Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

4:35pm Tue 24 Jan 12

Jackholly says...

Darkforbid - "Yep your so understanding, as your posts show... Do you have anything to say about the subject,,,... No didn't think so"
Yes, my point was two-fold. 1) prescriptions should not be stopped for Coeliacs. 2) Your a sponger who's opinion should be ignored until you can be bothered to contribute into the tax system.

Darkforbid - "Well Jackholly, the only person complaining seems to be you... In fact most of your posts are little more than 'I work so i'm right' patting yourself on the back, self congratulation..."
Really? are you hard of sight as well as lazy and unmotivated to work? quite a few people on here are against this move by the NHS, but I guess you wont see that sentence with your selective eyesight and selective work habits

Darkforbid - "Allot of tax payer's however don't have the same view about the NHS providing modified food products, to people who would have a healthy and better diet if this stopped..."
Do they? I must have missed that county or country survey to all tax payers? or are you talking out rubbish again? ooooh yeah it's rubbish, you wouldnt have got invited to take the survey because you dont pay TAX take take take take

Darkforbid - "Gluten free diets are followed by many people not just sufferers of this condition... None of them are claiming its such an expensive choice they are unable to live... In fact most claim its cheaper healthy choice"
More made up stats? wow your something else. You should make a choice, the one to pay tax by working.

Darkforbid - "what are you stupid?"
It appears you must be and lazy to still be unemployed but happily taking the tax payers money so you can sit on here all day talking rubbish about how OUR not your tax money is spent.
Darkforbid - "Yep your so understanding, as your posts show... Do you have anything to say about the subject,,,... No didn't think so" Yes, my point was two-fold. 1) prescriptions should not be stopped for Coeliacs. 2) Your a sponger who's opinion should be ignored until you can be bothered to contribute into the tax system. Darkforbid - "Well Jackholly, the only person complaining seems to be you... In fact most of your posts are little more than 'I work so i'm right' patting yourself on the back, self congratulation..." Really? are you hard of sight as well as lazy and unmotivated to work? quite a few people on here are against this move by the NHS, but I guess you wont see that sentence with your selective eyesight and selective work habits Darkforbid - "Allot of tax payer's however don't have the same view about the NHS providing modified food products, to people who would have a healthy and better diet if this stopped..." Do they? I must have missed that county or country survey to all tax payers? or are you talking out rubbish again? ooooh yeah it's rubbish, you wouldnt have got invited to take the survey because you dont pay TAX take take take take Darkforbid - "Gluten free diets are followed by many people not just sufferers of this condition... None of them are claiming its such an expensive choice they are unable to live... In fact most claim its cheaper healthy choice" More made up stats? wow your something else. You should make a choice, the one to pay tax by working. Darkforbid - "what are you stupid?" It appears you must be and lazy to still be unemployed but happily taking the tax payers money so you can sit on here all day talking rubbish about how OUR not your tax money is spent. Jackholly
  • Score: 0

10:24pm Tue 24 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

Hey so your that lazy you posted the same thing here Jackholly... Well I may be sign-in-on, but bet I still earn more money a week than you do, like I said I only sign-on because the advice from Street Services is it will help with housing...
Hey so your that lazy you posted the same thing here Jackholly... Well I may be sign-in-on, but bet I still earn more money a week than you do, like I said I only sign-on because the advice from Street Services is it will help with housing... Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

8:38am Wed 25 Jan 12

Jackholly says...

Darkforbid - "Hey so your that lazy you posted the same thing here Jackholly... Well I may be sign-in-on, but bet I still earn more money a week than you do, like I said I only sign-on because the advice from Street Services is it will help with housing..."
You probably do earn more than me, take our hard earned cash as benefits instead of earning it, work on the side to bump up your ill-gotten income and then dare tell people your opinion on how their tax money should be spent, scum plain and simple, the true problem with society.
Oh and “like I said I only sign-on because the advice from Street Services is it will help with housing” “like I said” haha who to? Not me, that’s the first time you have said that, more jackanoire to try and convince the world you’re not a work shy lazy bum on the take for all you can get....
Darkforbid - "Hey so your that lazy you posted the same thing here Jackholly... Well I may be sign-in-on, but bet I still earn more money a week than you do, like I said I only sign-on because the advice from Street Services is it will help with housing..." You probably do earn more than me, take our hard earned cash as benefits instead of earning it, work on the side to bump up your ill-gotten income and then dare tell people your opinion on how their tax money should be spent, scum plain and simple, the true problem with society. Oh and “like I said I only sign-on because the advice from Street Services is it will help with housing” “like I said” haha who to? Not me, that’s the first time you have said that, more jackanoire to try and convince the world you’re not a work shy lazy bum on the take for all you can get.... Jackholly
  • Score: 0

10:59am Wed 25 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

Well jackholly apart from the way JSA works in this country is all other earnings are deducted from your benefits means I get zero from the government, you'd be right...

I don't know where you get the idea that JSA's £65 per week so the unemployed can eat is robbing you...

Or that only you are allowed a view because you pay tax, mind you bet you get more back than you pay

But bet your like that at home, "that's my money" as your kids starve,
Well jackholly apart from the way JSA works in this country is all other earnings are deducted from your benefits means I get zero from the government, you'd be right... I don't know where you get the idea that JSA's £65 per week so the unemployed can eat is robbing you... Or that only you are allowed a view because you pay tax, mind you bet you get more back than you pay But bet your like that at home, "that's my money" as your kids starve, Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

11:21am Wed 25 Jan 12

Jackholly says...

I’m not self employed numb nuts so I get nothing back.

Like I have said to you before, you can have a view, just not on how tax money is used because you are a sponger not a contributor!

By all means tell me your opinion on life after death, whether fingernails grow faster when you sleep etc etc, but until you can be bothered to get up off your rear and start giving back to the country you would rather just take from, hush up munchkin and get back to thinking of ways for why your justifiably stealing from everyone’s pockets.

Waster
I’m not self employed numb nuts so I get nothing back. Like I have said to you before, you can have a view, just not on how tax money is used because you are a sponger not a contributor! By all means tell me your opinion on life after death, whether fingernails grow faster when you sleep etc etc, but until you can be bothered to get up off your rear and start giving back to the country you would rather just take from, hush up munchkin and get back to thinking of ways for why your justifiably stealing from everyone’s pockets. Waster Jackholly
  • Score: 0

1:22pm Wed 25 Jan 12

Darkforbid says...

Why don't you just tell the truth and admit your, stupid attitude is because of a idiot mistake in different article, and you when to the lengths using a different name, simply because you don't like being told your wrong...

As it goes writing style is personal and easy to spot
Why don't you just tell the truth and admit your, stupid attitude is because of a idiot mistake in different article, and you when to the lengths using a different name, simply because you don't like being told your wrong... As it goes writing style is personal and easy to spot Darkforbid
  • Score: 0

1:46pm Wed 25 Jan 12

Jackholly says...

Yep I am everyone, I am the shadows, I am the air, and I am paranoia!
Yep I am everyone, I am the shadows, I am the air, and I am paranoia! Jackholly
  • Score: 0

9:07am Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

EMBOX1 wrote:
"People who are allergic to dairy do not get food on prescription" You said it! Supermarkets have a good range of food for lactose intolerant and coealics, not to mention many other dietry types (kosher/halal/vegan, I know these aren't medical conditions, but anyway). I seem to have a problem digesting wheat but I would never dream of asking the NHS to give me food. That's a line I would never cross.
Embox, please see your GP and ask to be tested for Coeliac Disease.

If you have the condition & it is not properly diagnosed & treated & you do not have further tests for associated illnesses you may develop other serious medical conditions such as cancer and osteoporosis.

A strict life-long gluten free diet is the only effective treatment for CD.

This is not an easy option but it is a medical neccessity for diagnosed coeliacs.

Just trying to cut out wheat if you are an undiagnosed coeliac will not alleviate the condition.

That is why coeliacs need prescription basics.

Unless you are corrected tested for CD you can recover & live a healthy normal life so I urge you to see your GP.
[quote][p][bold]EMBOX1[/bold] wrote: "People who are allergic to dairy do not get food on prescription" You said it! Supermarkets have a good range of food for lactose intolerant and coealics, not to mention many other dietry types (kosher/halal/vegan, I know these aren't medical conditions, but anyway). I seem to have a problem digesting wheat but I would never dream of asking the NHS to give me food. That's a line I would never cross.[/p][/quote]Embox, please see your GP and ask to be tested for Coeliac Disease. If you have the condition & it is not properly diagnosed & treated & you do not have further tests for associated illnesses you may develop other serious medical conditions such as cancer and osteoporosis. A strict life-long gluten free diet is the only effective treatment for CD. This is not an easy option but it is a medical neccessity for diagnosed coeliacs. Just trying to cut out wheat if you are an undiagnosed coeliac will not alleviate the condition. That is why coeliacs need prescription basics. Unless you are corrected tested for CD you can recover & live a healthy normal life so I urge you to see your GP. Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

9:14am Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

Darkforbid wrote:
---Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.--- Yep, NHS "buy my food for me", it cost less and is less effort if you do... Do you think conning people with the "I have to plan my diet" argument?
Darkforbid, Coeliacs are not simply planning their diet, their gluten free diet is the ONLY treatment for this serious medical condition.

There is no element of choice for a Coeliac, the treatment is a life-long strict gluten free diet.
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: ---Having access to affordable alternative foods to help is not a luxury.--- Yep, NHS "buy my food for me", it cost less and is less effort if you do... Do you think conning people with the "I have to plan my diet" argument?[/p][/quote]Darkforbid, Coeliacs are not simply planning their diet, their gluten free diet is the ONLY treatment for this serious medical condition. There is no element of choice for a Coeliac, the treatment is a life-long strict gluten free diet. Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

9:18am Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

Darkforbid wrote:
┄May I ask Darkforbid, do you receive any state benefits?┄ Yep JSA, not that I like being on benefits... Most of the time I just make money on the streets, but being zero-benefits crosses you off some lists I need to be on like housing...
Darkforbid, I cannot understand your position, do you mean you are homeless & beg on the streets?
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: ┄May I ask Darkforbid, do you receive any state benefits?┄ Yep JSA, not that I like being on benefits... Most of the time I just make money on the streets, but being zero-benefits crosses you off some lists I need to be on like housing...[/p][/quote]Darkforbid, I cannot understand your position, do you mean you are homeless & beg on the streets? Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

9:53am Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

coe114c wrote:
This discussion is going to carry on going round and round in circles. The NHS should be educating people about proper nutrition. It is easy to eat gluten free without processed foods and I very rarely get stuff on prescription or buy 'free from' foods in supermarkets. Without a shift in our culture though people are still going to hanker after their white bread, ready made cakes and biscuits, pies etc.
coe114c, it is NOT easy to eat gluten free with or without processed foods.

A strictly gluten free diet for life is difficult.
You cannot eat just a few crumbs of bread or a bit of ordinary flour if you have Coeliac Disease because you would damage your gut and you would experience very unpleasant and distressing symptoms if you did.

Think of severe gastroenteritis and you get the idea of the effects on a coeliac if even a tiny amount of gluten is accidentally eaten.

A coeliac must have his own toaster (so the gluten free bread does not get contaminated with ordinary bread crumbs whilst being toasted).
A coeliac must not share butter, spread etc in case crumbs of gluten bread contaminate it.

Gluten free food in supermarkets are just treated as ordinary stock.
I have seen gluten free flour displayed right next to gluten free flour in supermarkets,where loose ordinary flour is liberally dusting the gluten free version.

No coeliac could risk eating that gluten free flour, it would cause gut damage.


Of course you cannot be sure any gluten free foods are going to be available in supermarkets forever, if it doesn't make enough profit it will not be stocked.

How does a coeliac easily eat without processed foods?

Do you grind your own gluten free grains?
[quote][p][bold]coe114c[/bold] wrote: This discussion is going to carry on going round and round in circles. The NHS should be educating people about proper nutrition. It is easy to eat gluten free without processed foods and I very rarely get stuff on prescription or buy 'free from' foods in supermarkets. Without a shift in our culture though people are still going to hanker after their white bread, ready made cakes and biscuits, pies etc.[/p][/quote]coe114c, it is NOT easy to eat gluten free with or without processed foods. A strictly gluten free diet for life is difficult. You cannot eat just a few crumbs of bread or a bit of ordinary flour if you have Coeliac Disease because you would damage your gut and you would experience very unpleasant and distressing symptoms if you did. Think of severe gastroenteritis and you get the idea of the effects on a coeliac if even a tiny amount of gluten is accidentally eaten. A coeliac must have his own toaster (so the gluten free bread does not get contaminated with ordinary bread crumbs whilst being toasted). A coeliac must not share butter, spread etc in case crumbs of gluten bread contaminate it. Gluten free food in supermarkets are just treated as ordinary stock. I have seen gluten free flour displayed right next to gluten free flour in supermarkets,where loose ordinary flour is liberally dusting the gluten free version. No coeliac could risk eating that gluten free flour, it would cause gut damage. Of course you cannot be sure any gluten free foods are going to be available in supermarkets forever, if it doesn't make enough profit it will not be stocked. How does a coeliac easily eat without processed foods? Do you grind your own gluten free grains? Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

9:57am Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

Darkforbid wrote:
What?! Just eat something else as staple like rice...
Yes, coeliacs do eat rice, Darkforbid.

Do you eat a variety of foods or do you just eat rice?
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: What?! Just eat something else as staple like rice...[/p][/quote]Yes, coeliacs do eat rice, Darkforbid. Do you eat a variety of foods or do you just eat rice? Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

10:03am Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

listentoyourself wrote:
It sounds an awful condition/illness, and please excuse my ignorance on Coeliac disease, however please help me understand, as I think people with Nut allergies have to do an equal amount of product research before eating, do they get foodstuffs on prescription? I appreciate the extra time it takes to cook, but a vast amount of people with varying illnesses take a lot longer than what would be the norm to do many daily chores. Maybe as many say there needs to be pressure on suppliers to reduce costs, but trying to see all arguments maybe the costs are higher due to economies of scale? But on a lighter note, do not worry about the NHS, they were charging me £7.40 per month for 8 tiny folic acid tablets (to go alongside Methotrexate) for some time before I realised I could either pay the £100 odd per year pre-payment, or get 100 of them for £2 myself at Tesco (sorry to some for mentioning the word Tesco). And please don’t have a pop about me mentioning the NHS, its tongue in cheek as I have over the years had a lot to thank them for.
listentoyourself wrote:
It sounds an awful condition/illness, and please excuse my ignorance on Coeliac disease, however please help me understand, as I think people with Nut allergies have to do an equal amount of product research before eating, do they get foodstuffs on prescription....

....................
...............

People with nut allergy do have to be careful with their diet but they also have Epipens on prescription, nobody seems to think they should NOT have prescription Epipens.

Coeliacs carefully eat non-prescription gluten free foods as well as prescription ones.
Why should coeliacs not have gluten free medical necessities on prescription?
[quote][p][bold]listentoyourself[/bold] wrote: It sounds an awful condition/illness, and please excuse my ignorance on Coeliac disease, however please help me understand, as I think people with Nut allergies have to do an equal amount of product research before eating, do they get foodstuffs on prescription? I appreciate the extra time it takes to cook, but a vast amount of people with varying illnesses take a lot longer than what would be the norm to do many daily chores. Maybe as many say there needs to be pressure on suppliers to reduce costs, but trying to see all arguments maybe the costs are higher due to economies of scale? But on a lighter note, do not worry about the NHS, they were charging me £7.40 per month for 8 tiny folic acid tablets (to go alongside Methotrexate) for some time before I realised I could either pay the £100 odd per year pre-payment, or get 100 of them for £2 myself at Tesco (sorry to some for mentioning the word Tesco). And please don’t have a pop about me mentioning the NHS, its tongue in cheek as I have over the years had a lot to thank them for.[/p][/quote]listentoyourself wrote: It sounds an awful condition/illness, and please excuse my ignorance on Coeliac disease, however please help me understand, as I think people with Nut allergies have to do an equal amount of product research before eating, do they get foodstuffs on prescription.... .................... ............... People with nut allergy do have to be careful with their diet but they also have Epipens on prescription, nobody seems to think they should NOT have prescription Epipens. Coeliacs carefully eat non-prescription gluten free foods as well as prescription ones. Why should coeliacs not have gluten free medical necessities on prescription? Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

10:12am Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

Darkforbid wrote:
That's a great idea perhaps then we can stop paying the massive amount of tax on the above mentioned products, that is used to support the NHS for the people who don't drink or smoke... Or maybe the woman your quoting can give her child something nutritious to eat like fruit, instead of empty bread based calories
Darkforbid, I am all for anyone having any medical treatment without blame so I don't agree it is fair to withhold medical treatment from alcoholics, smokers , obese people or drug addicts.

You are right to say a healthy diet without any processed foods will probably mean better health in the future & so it helps in avoiding serious medical conditions .

This is the very reason coeliacs should have prescription gluten free food.

If a coeliac stays strictly gluten free (and remember gluten free prescriptions are the best way to help coeliacs stay gluten free) then in the future expensive treatment for complications such as cancer and osteoporosis are avoided.

So, yes, prevention being better than cure, coeliacs should have prescription glutenfree basics.
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: That's a great idea perhaps then we can stop paying the massive amount of tax on the above mentioned products, that is used to support the NHS for the people who don't drink or smoke... Or maybe the woman your quoting can give her child something nutritious to eat like fruit, instead of empty bread based calories[/p][/quote]Darkforbid, I am all for anyone having any medical treatment without blame so I don't agree it is fair to withhold medical treatment from alcoholics, smokers , obese people or drug addicts. You are right to say a healthy diet without any processed foods will probably mean better health in the future & so it helps in avoiding serious medical conditions . This is the very reason coeliacs should have prescription gluten free food. If a coeliac stays strictly gluten free (and remember gluten free prescriptions are the best way to help coeliacs stay gluten free) then in the future expensive treatment for complications such as cancer and osteoporosis are avoided. So, yes, prevention being better than cure, coeliacs should have prescription glutenfree basics. Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

10:18am Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

Darkforbid wrote:
So basically SM, saying that some kids are already suffer from lack of care of their illness... And that's with the scripts. My point would be without the scripts, parents will have to learn proper CD management instead of relying on NHS foods But then why bother you like most of the against the 'ban' posters, only seem to be able to see gluten free products... Not the vast range of other food options
Darkforbid, you say:
....................
.......
parents will have to learn proper CD management instead of relying on NHS foods

....................
................


Yes, parents of children diagnosed with Coeliac Disease do have gluten free dietary advice from NHS dietitians.

Part of the advice is to use gluten free prescription basics with non-prescription food.
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: So basically SM, saying that some kids are already suffer from lack of care of their illness... And that's with the scripts. My point would be without the scripts, parents will have to learn proper CD management instead of relying on NHS foods But then why bother you like most of the against the 'ban' posters, only seem to be able to see gluten free products... Not the vast range of other food options[/p][/quote]Darkforbid, you say: .................... ....... parents will have to learn proper CD management instead of relying on NHS foods .................... ................ Yes, parents of children diagnosed with Coeliac Disease do have gluten free dietary advice from NHS dietitians. Part of the advice is to use gluten free prescription basics with non-prescription food. Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

3:45pm Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

Darkforbid wrote:
┄Not SUB human, lazy scum maybe haha. No I don’t think that, in fact depending on how they got there I am normally understanding. BUT when someone claims to be one (despite the fact they seem to be online so often) starts dribbling off nonsense that could dramatically impact people’s lives it gets my back up, sort your life out first and start contributing again. THEN come and try and change the world so people don’t see sandwiches as a staple part of lunch..... Yep your so understanding, as your posts show... Do you have anything to say about the subject,,,... No didn't think so Anyway back on subject, lots of people in the UK follow a gluten free diet for heath reasons, its not just people with CD... Many of them are on benefits, they just follow a gluten free diet because its thought to be a healthy diet, none of them moan about it being unaffordable in fact many claim its a cheaper healthy diet... In fact the only ones objecting seem to be those who, get reduced rate or free food from the good old NHS I've not seen a real point made in all these posts about why this NHS help should continue, all the argument miss the fact that there are other forms of calories out there... Which are allot cheaper than modified wheat
Darkforbid,you say:

....................
.............
lots of people in the UK follow a gluten free diet for heath reasons, its not just people with CD...

....................
..........

Who are these people you claim are gluten free?
How can you be sure they are gluten free 100% of the time?

Patients who are allowed gluten free prescription items are diagnosed coeliacs who have to have had a biopsy (not at all pleasant)and they are always strictly gluten free because this is their medical treatment & without it they will have damaged guts & will risk cancer and ostoeporosis.

The gluten free diet for a coeliac is NOT a choice.

If you are a coeliac the strict gluten free diet for life is your medical treatment & just as other patients have their prescriptions, so coeliacs need theirs.
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: ┄Not SUB human, lazy scum maybe haha. No I don’t think that, in fact depending on how they got there I am normally understanding. BUT when someone claims to be one (despite the fact they seem to be online so often) starts dribbling off nonsense that could dramatically impact people’s lives it gets my back up, sort your life out first and start contributing again. THEN come and try and change the world so people don’t see sandwiches as a staple part of lunch..... Yep your so understanding, as your posts show... Do you have anything to say about the subject,,,... No didn't think so Anyway back on subject, lots of people in the UK follow a gluten free diet for heath reasons, its not just people with CD... Many of them are on benefits, they just follow a gluten free diet because its thought to be a healthy diet, none of them moan about it being unaffordable in fact many claim its a cheaper healthy diet... In fact the only ones objecting seem to be those who, get reduced rate or free food from the good old NHS I've not seen a real point made in all these posts about why this NHS help should continue, all the argument miss the fact that there are other forms of calories out there... Which are allot cheaper than modified wheat[/p][/quote]Darkforbid,you say: .................... ............. lots of people in the UK follow a gluten free diet for heath reasons, its not just people with CD... .................... .......... Who are these people you claim are gluten free? How can you be sure they are gluten free 100% of the time? Patients who are allowed gluten free prescription items are diagnosed coeliacs who have to have had a biopsy (not at all pleasant)and they are always strictly gluten free because this is their medical treatment & without it they will have damaged guts & will risk cancer and ostoeporosis. The gluten free diet for a coeliac is NOT a choice. If you are a coeliac the strict gluten free diet for life is your medical treatment & just as other patients have their prescriptions, so coeliacs need theirs. Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

3:57pm Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

xjohnx wrote:
I don't want my tax money spent on feeding people with a food intolerance. I helped pay (via taxes) for the research and diagnosis and don't begrudge it for a minute. However, gluten free is NOT a treatment or medication. The taxpayer should not foot the bill.
xjohnx, you say you have paid for research into (presumably) Coeliac Disease.

The research into Coeliac Disease is paid for mainly by charities.

If taxpayers pay for research into coeliac disease then so do coeliac taxpayers.

If taxpayers pay for diagnosis of coeliac disease then so must coeliac taxpayers.

Coeliac Disease is not a food intolerance, it is an autoimmune condition.

The strict life long gluten free diet a coeliac has to have IS the only treatment.

There is no cure for Coeliac Disease, coeliacs are in remission from the condition as long as they are always gluten free.

If they do not stay strictly gluten free for life they will sustain gut damage to such a degree that it can lead to osteoporosis and cancer.

Coeliac taxpayers foot the bill for other NHS treatments which others need.

Coeliacs should be no different from any other patients who have prescriptions for their medical condition.
[quote][p][bold]xjohnx[/bold] wrote: I don't want my tax money spent on feeding people with a food intolerance. I helped pay (via taxes) for the research and diagnosis and don't begrudge it for a minute. However, gluten free is NOT a treatment or medication. The taxpayer should not foot the bill.[/p][/quote]xjohnx, you say you have paid for research into (presumably) Coeliac Disease. The research into Coeliac Disease is paid for mainly by charities. If taxpayers pay for research into coeliac disease then so do coeliac taxpayers. If taxpayers pay for diagnosis of coeliac disease then so must coeliac taxpayers. Coeliac Disease is not a food intolerance, it is an autoimmune condition. The strict life long gluten free diet a coeliac has to have IS the only treatment. There is no cure for Coeliac Disease, coeliacs are in remission from the condition as long as they are always gluten free. If they do not stay strictly gluten free for life they will sustain gut damage to such a degree that it can lead to osteoporosis and cancer. Coeliac taxpayers foot the bill for other NHS treatments which others need. Coeliacs should be no different from any other patients who have prescriptions for their medical condition. Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

4:00pm Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

BrianAdams wrote:
If you are against this move, please sign this petition to stop the NHS removing gluten-free prescriptions for Coeliacs: http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/27968
Brian, this is an excellent petition, I have signed it & wish it all the best.

http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/27968
[quote][p][bold]BrianAdams[/bold] wrote: If you are against this move, please sign this petition to stop the NHS removing gluten-free prescriptions for Coeliacs: http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/27968[/p][/quote]Brian, this is an excellent petition, I have signed it & wish it all the best. http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/27968 Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

4:09pm Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

Ians view wrote:
After reading ‘Dangerous Grains’ ‘Wheat Belly’ and other sources of information on food an nutrition, I feel lucky to have discovered the truth about gluten. Had my autoimmune system not responded by causing me such pain, I would still probably have been eating gluten today. Socially, being excluded from the diet of the masses is problematic, but something I have learnt to deal with. It’s no good trying to hide the fact that we can’t eat certain foods. When I was diagnosed, I did not believe that after so many years I could no longer consume many everyday foods and drink products. I sought out the rather expensive, gluten-free products. I’m a curious person, so I continued to read food product labels and about foods. I thought it bizarre that vegetables were turned into pasta to have sauce poured over them, so I started to put pasta sauces over steamed vegetables. This saved me money and tasted much better than the vegetables that through a totally unnatural process had been turned into brittle shapes. Is there any evidence that the same nutritional benefit gained from eating fresh vegetables, can be gained from vegetables that have been turned into pasta? I started to look more closely at the ingredients of other gluten-free products that I like others was purchasing. These ingredients frequently included: Rice flour, Potato Flour, Corn flour, millet flour, Potato Starch, Modified Tapioca Starch, Maize Starch, Maize Sugar, Vegetable Oil, Modified Potato Starch, Hydroxypropyl Methyl Cellulose, Locust Bean Gum, Guar Gum, Sodium Caseinate, Sugar, Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Carbonate, Modified Waxy Maize Starch, Tartaric Acid When I start to investigate these ingredients, I find: Tartaric acid - described as a muscle toxin and is linked to muscle damage. Soy – linked to cancer and other health problems Sodium Caseinate/Casein – linked to autism and cancer. Casein has a molecular structure quite similar to that of gluten. Sodium carbonate - According to the MSDS, Sodium Carbonate could cause irritant to the skin, eyes, ingestion or lungs. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can result in organ damage. Vegetable Oil – many nutritionists warn against its consumption. Hydrogenated vegetable oil has been banned in two European countries What is the effect of turning rice into flour? Many nutritionists warn against white rice (brown rice ok), so can our digestive system deal happily in the long-term with this man-created substance? By inventing new food substances, are we creating new food intolerances for future generations? Do we really know better than nature? With so many question marks against the ingredients in substitute foods to those including gluten should we not be a little concerned about them? Is adults seeing celiac children eating sandwiches like their gluten-tolerant school friends more important than their long-term health? If someone can clear away all the questions marks, then perhaps the NHS should help families – even if this bill runs to millions of pounds. In Oxfordshire alone, the NHS bill for gluten-free substitute foods on prescription is about £350,000. Whilst there is so much uncertainty, and links between the ingredients of gluten-free substitute foods and poor health, it seems reasonable that the NHS should not be providing these foods on prescription. It would be better to make ready-meals, fast-foods and foods containing gluten less attractive and better labelling foods with gluten so that everyone reduces their consumption of gluten, potentially saving the NHS money as health improves. Many people are unaware of their gluten intolerance... many do not find out until they are adult’s in their 30’s or older. I see no reason why any child needs to eat sandwiches at school or at home. We need to ensure that nutritionally beneficial meals based on meat, organs, eggs and vegetables are available at every school – and that parents have the skills to feed their children at home.
Ian, you say:

. In Oxfordshire alone, the NHS bill for gluten-free substitute foods on prescription is about £350,000.

********************
****

Coeliacs pay for their prescriptions just as any other patients do.
[quote][p][bold]Ians view[/bold] wrote: After reading ‘Dangerous Grains’ ‘Wheat Belly’ and other sources of information on food an nutrition, I feel lucky to have discovered the truth about gluten. Had my autoimmune system not responded by causing me such pain, I would still probably have been eating gluten today. Socially, being excluded from the diet of the masses is problematic, but something I have learnt to deal with. It’s no good trying to hide the fact that we can’t eat certain foods. When I was diagnosed, I did not believe that after so many years I could no longer consume many everyday foods and drink products. I sought out the rather expensive, gluten-free products. I’m a curious person, so I continued to read food product labels and about foods. I thought it bizarre that vegetables were turned into pasta to have sauce poured over them, so I started to put pasta sauces over steamed vegetables. This saved me money and tasted much better than the vegetables that through a totally unnatural process had been turned into brittle shapes. Is there any evidence that the same nutritional benefit gained from eating fresh vegetables, can be gained from vegetables that have been turned into pasta? I started to look more closely at the ingredients of other gluten-free products that I like others was purchasing. These ingredients frequently included: Rice flour, Potato Flour, Corn flour, millet flour, Potato Starch, Modified Tapioca Starch, Maize Starch, Maize Sugar, Vegetable Oil, Modified Potato Starch, Hydroxypropyl Methyl Cellulose, Locust Bean Gum, Guar Gum, Sodium Caseinate, Sugar, Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Carbonate, Modified Waxy Maize Starch, Tartaric Acid When I start to investigate these ingredients, I find: Tartaric acid - described as a muscle toxin and is linked to muscle damage. Soy – linked to cancer and other health problems Sodium Caseinate/Casein – linked to autism and cancer. Casein has a molecular structure quite similar to that of gluten. Sodium carbonate - According to the MSDS, Sodium Carbonate could cause irritant to the skin, eyes, ingestion or lungs. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can result in organ damage. Vegetable Oil – many nutritionists warn against its consumption. Hydrogenated vegetable oil has been banned in two European countries What is the effect of turning rice into flour? Many nutritionists warn against white rice (brown rice ok), so can our digestive system deal happily in the long-term with this man-created substance? By inventing new food substances, are we creating new food intolerances for future generations? Do we really know better than nature? With so many question marks against the ingredients in substitute foods to those including gluten should we not be a little concerned about them? Is adults seeing celiac children eating sandwiches like their gluten-tolerant school friends more important than their long-term health? If someone can clear away all the questions marks, then perhaps the NHS should help families – even if this bill runs to millions of pounds. In Oxfordshire alone, the NHS bill for gluten-free substitute foods on prescription is about £350,000. Whilst there is so much uncertainty, and links between the ingredients of gluten-free substitute foods and poor health, it seems reasonable that the NHS should not be providing these foods on prescription. It would be better to make ready-meals, fast-foods and foods containing gluten less attractive and better labelling foods with gluten so that everyone reduces their consumption of gluten, potentially saving the NHS money as health improves. Many people are unaware of their gluten intolerance... many do not find out until they are adult’s in their 30’s or older. I see no reason why any child needs to eat sandwiches at school or at home. We need to ensure that nutritionally beneficial meals based on meat, organs, eggs and vegetables are available at every school – and that parents have the skills to feed their children at home.[/p][/quote]Ian, you say: . In Oxfordshire alone, the NHS bill for gluten-free substitute foods on prescription is about £350,000. ******************** **** Coeliacs pay for their prescriptions just as any other patients do. Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

4:11pm Wed 1 Feb 12

Mark Monaghan says...

The spokesperson for Oxfordshire said:


....................
.......
The NHS does not provide food on prescription for other groups of patients whose diseases are associated with, or affected by, the type of food they eat.

....................
........

PKU patients have prescription foods (as well as a controlled diet).

Is Oxfordshire going to ban PKU prescriptions?
The spokesperson for Oxfordshire said: .................... ....... The NHS does not provide food on prescription for other groups of patients whose diseases are associated with, or affected by, the type of food they eat. .................... ........ PKU patients have prescription foods (as well as a controlled diet). Is Oxfordshire going to ban PKU prescriptions? Mark Monaghan
  • Score: 0

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree